Round 135 | Språkspelet

Round
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Arief Wibowo Here's my favorite quote in Indonesian, said to be from Al-Khwarizmi (but I can't verify this claim):
Untuk mencapai suatu tujuan besar,
maka tujuan tersebut harus dibagi-bagi menjadi tujuan kecil,
sampai tujuan kecil itu merupakan tujuan yang dapat dicapai,
berdasarkan kondisi dan potensi yang dimiliki saat itu

Arief Wibowo Too long?

Btw, if its not easy for you guys to translate it, you may join

New round o Billy James Brightraven, Brandon James Heinrich, Дайте Нефть Из Баку, Dago Lesmes, Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström, dll

Christian James Meredith I'm not gonna participate although I will go through with google translate to figure it out so I can help. It is a big one, but with a good dictionary (I think there's about a bazillion kamus + .net .com .edu .gov .anything-else's out there) it should be ok

Arief Wibowo Surprisingly Google Translate translates the first two lines accurately! But fails on remaining lines

(active Språkspelers shouldn't try to verifiy that

)

Christian James Meredith I'm gonna throw out a hint already for the English speakers - there's one word early on that won't work nicely in the English translation, and seems sorta redundant, so you could probably leave it out

Maria Weidner Funny, hanya ada dua orang yg lagi aktiv ( selain Arief) Dan justru mereka gal bisa ikut

Arief Wibowo Sorry...

Sarah Karoline, time to level up your -indo knowledge

Christian James Meredith Billy James Brightraven, hur går du med Indonesiska?

Arief Wibowo Maybe he is still enjoying Croatiska

Arief Wibowo Nobody? :/

Christian James Meredith We can still keep this traditionally Indonesian! Someone bribe me and I'll hand you the translation, and possibly a moped license!

Christian James Meredith I think they're all asleep/waking up.

Arief Wibowo "amplop"?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Hi folks, just woke up from my hibernation, lol
I'm heavily booked by the agency this week
So, I have been very busy at work lately and no time for social life or entertainment, including sprogspelet

Christian James Meredith Jangan khuatir mas, babak ini dalam bahasa Indonesia "anyway"

Arief Wibowo Vincensiu Denis, you're the 5th of us that's busy this week (me, Maria, Sarah, Christian)! The universe works in strange ways

Maria Weidner Wasn't a certain James Heinrich very keen to participate?

Maria Weidner I think (hope) Sarah will have more time tomorrow.

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Hopef ully I won't be having too many clients today, or be busy at work, so I can participate a bit more on sprogspelet

but the round is in Indo anyway...

Maria Weidner I'd translate you the text in a few minutes, but thats not what the game is about. But the biggest challenge isn't the Indonesian original but the English translation!!

Arief Wibowo Vincensiu Denis May day you good-good only

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I hope so, the previous 2 days at work has been so tough as I was delegated to the worst section at my workplace

see my wall...

Arief Wibowo I noticed

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter So quiet here...
Anyway I'm back on my nightmare. So definitely no spragspelet pour moi aujourd'hui

Arief Wibowo Very quiet..... I guess I made a mistake by using Indonesian

Maria Weidner hmm..since everybody who is here speaks it..maybe

Christian James Meredith Brandon James Heinrich, your time to shine is now!

Maria Weidner Oh, and don't say again "but I don't speak Indonesian", because that's the point!

Kalisa Hagen Mbak Maria Weidner dan Mas Christian James Meredith udah berapa lama sih belajar bahasa Indonesia? Lancar banget. *kepo/penasaran*

Christian James Meredith Waaah, tidak! Aku belum lancar

(misalnya, aku taku tahu mengapa (Mbak?) Kalisa menggunakan "sih" di depan "belajar" haha). Tapi, aku sudah belajar bahasa Indonesia selama tiga tahun di universitas dan beberapa di sekolah (tapi sudah lupah banyak).

Maria Weidner Kalisa, bhs Indo aku udah gak sebagus dulu. kira2 15 thn yg lalu aku benar2 lancar, aksen jerman pun gak ada. Sejak itu aku jarang banget pake bhs Indo lagi, jadi sekarang agak kacau. dulu bisa baca koran dan buku2, kalo ngomong diri sendiri sampai pake bhs Indo!

Kehidupan aku dulu 100% dlm bhs Indo!

Maria Weidner Christian "sih" is untranslatable. it just gives more...hmm..more emphasis (?) to a question or statement. Kenapa sih?? But why??? Aku sih udah lupa banyak (I (!!) forgot a lot already..) Kamu sih.... It is sooo you!

ngerti?

Maria Weidner oh, and Kalisas question: since she is thinking we are so good

she is very curious and wondering how much TIME we are studying, the emphasis in her sentence is "time"

Christian James Meredith Aaah wakarimashita! Wait, wrong language north of the border! Sekarang mengerti, makasih Maria!

Maria Weidner sama2 mas Christian!

Maria Weidner I should study japanese..it sounds so nice..:)

Arief Wibowo Maria and others, search for "speak japanese without saying a word" in youtube (I am going to post a link tomorrow)

Kalisa Hagen Christian James Meredith
"Aku belum lancar"
Setidaknya sudah bisa menulis satu paragraf seperti di atas.

"misalnya, aku taku tahu mengapa (Mbak?) Kalisa menggunakan "sih" di depan "belajar" haha"
Panggil aku "mas" aja. Haha. Just kidding.

Actually, in that case, I did not really need "sih". Mbak Maria Weidner explained it well.

Without "sih", my question would sound *flat* and *cold*. hehe

Maria Weidner
"aksen jerman pun gak ada."
Wah, keren, keren!

"Sejak itu aku jarang banget pake bhs Indo lagi, jadi sekarang agak kacau."
Tapi menulisnya masih bagus. Plus, enggak *kaku/textbook*.

Arief Wibowo Mbak Kalisa, kalau aku ngomong bahasa Indonesia, jauh lebih textbook daripada mereka berdua.
Aku bahkan tidak pernah mengucapkan "sih" sama sekali

(nobody attempting my round?

)

Maria Weidner kalo loget jkt masih lumayan, tapi bhs Indonesia "yang baik dan benar" aduuh.. tapi dulu juga kurang bisa

Maria Weidner Arief, all of us here speak Indonesian..maybe it wasn't really the best idea. If you want, I translate it, but that's not the point of this game, is it?

Arief Wibowo The idea was a bit more noble: to get new people to win and start new rounds

Maria Weidner dulu aku ngomong begitu, sekarang, gak tahu ya..: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzqE0G6tbGY

Maria Weidner new round by Arief: Untuk mencapai suatu tujuan besar,
maka tujuan tersebut harus dibagi-bagi menjadi tujuan kecil,
sampai tujuan kecil itu merupakan tujuan yang dapat dicapai,
berdasarkan kondisi dan potensi yang dimiliki saat itu

Kalisa Hagen Arief Wibowo Ahahaha. Masak sih?

Jangan-jangan, enggak pernah make lo-gue juga ya? Hehe.

Maria Weidner Aku suka nontonin videonya Sacha. Lucu-lucu.

Arief Wibowo Kalau waktu ngomong, ga pernah pakai lo/gue (terasa agak kasar). "Gue" kemarin sarankan Maria untuk jalan2 ke Indo lagi, refreshing memories. Hahaha

Maria Weidner Tapi si Maria gak punya waktu dan duit...

Christian James Meredith Kalisa (I was about to type "Karisa", my Japanese learning is invading!), makasih untuk penjelasanmu!

Wait, so no title? But now my Japanese learning part of my brain feels confused!

(-san, -kun, -chan, -sama, -dono, -sensei, -tan, so many to choose from in Japanese)

Maria Weidner use "dik" :), yakan dik lisa?

Arief Wibowo Kerja keras

(back to English, so we don't spook future Sprogspelers away :P)
Kalisa, I don't understand "nontonin ..." (from nontonkan -- which I would understand as "watch ... for somebody else")

Speaking of holidays, I am due for my "half-yearly no-computers retreat" (april and october). Anybody joining me?

Maria Weidner no computer?? hmm.. no..

(it would mean no Språkspelet...)

Arief Wibowo Hey, we have Tan Sri title in Malaysia!

Maria Weidner if I work hard I'll have more money but still no time

And I am working hard, just German teachers are getting tips, no salaries

Arief Wibowo There's fine print to my no-computers rule, mobile phones are allowed (call me racist, but I don't consider feature phones as computers

)
And before leaving, I will complete the Referee page for you guys

Besides, I trust all of you here to hoist our Sprogspelet/Sveindoneska flag and spread the word.

Arief Wibowo Maria, learn System, Anwendungen, Produkte[...] (SAP, probably severely misspelt and I can't remember the whole thing), for one of the best paying IT job in 2013

Kalisa Hagen Arief Wibowo It is, indeed. That's why I use lo-gue (usually) to my (close) friends -or whenever I'm angry at somebody.

"(back to English, so we don't spook future Sprogspelers away :P)" <-lol, very true!

I've been wondering lately whether all along I have been speaking Bahasa Betawi instead of Bahasa Indonesia because I use more "lo-gue" instead of "aku/saya-kamu/Anda", "nontonin" instead of "menonton", "ngingetin" instead of "mengingatkan", etc.

*That does not mean though that I don't know decent Indonesian which I favor in written communication than in spoken. I just *love* (using) both.

Christian James Meredith lol, "Karisa" would be a pretty name too.

Japanese is a nice-sounding language. I'm learning it too, albeit *slowly* because I'm working on improving my French and Dutch. Haha

Maria Weidner Arief , only reading that i wanna cry...

Christian James Meredith Wait, what's lo-gue mean?

Christian James Meredith Also, just in case someone actually cares about the game anymore:
"Here's my favorite quote in Indonesian, said to be from Al-Khwarizmi (but I can't verify this claim):
Untuk mencapai suatu tujuan besar,
maka tujuan tersebut harus dibagi-bagi menjadi tujuan kecil,
sampai tujuan kecil itu merupakan tujuan yang dapat dicapai,
berdasarkan kondisi dan potensi yang dimiliki saat itu"

Arief Wibowo Kalisa: I understand the meaning of ngingetin though

Or the Batak way: aku dan kau

(suka Dancow)
Strangely when I first move from Jakarta to Medan, I always say "kamu" (instead of "lu" or "lo"). Probably my side of Jakarta is a bit different?

Maria Weidner Loe = kamu , gue = aku betawi dialect, those words have Chinese origin

Arief Wibowo Christian: the strange-looking word above is a suskyr product
(I seem to have inexplicable vast knowledge of milk brands

)

Arief Wibowo Yeap, I would use lu and (g)wa when speaking Hokkien/Min Nan (where the word come from).
But the Hokkien we speak* isn't lo or gua/gue (as Betawis/Indonesians say it), and it somehow feels rude.
Maybe as Kalisa said, she only use it with close friends or when angry.

*) there are other Hokkien dialects

Arief Wibowo We should come up with teleportations for cheaper/faster travel.. Hmpf

Christian James Meredith I've seen lo and gue before in a movie... I forgot its name now, but it was a comedy movie about a group (who I think are a band in real life) who wanted to be a bikie gang.

Arief Wibowo I suddenly recall Sacha's "sinetron" scene

Kalisa Hagen Arief Wibowo
My (close) friends would laugh at/tease/make fun of me when I use "aku-kamu", especially to a guy/guys. They'll be *suspicious* that I have a *special* feeling or something-more-than-friends for/with him/them though I actually don't, not always. I was/am just trying to be polite.

Do people in Medan use "lo-gue" too?
What is alternative to "lo-gue" in Hokkien/Min Nan that you use?

Arief Wibowo In Medan it's aku (and wa/gwa) and kau/ko* (and lu) -- never kamu, Bataks are rather fierce

In Min Nan: see in brackets above

For example, search for "tau ko medan", it's a t-shirt/souvenir shop

Arief Wibowo Ora opo2 mbak

(yeap, seems like nobody's attempting my round, so much for getting others to party.....cipate)

Christian James Meredith Here in the United States of Australia we just have one set of pronouns, so we don't need to worry about this!

Or maybe that's the problem - instead we have even subtler ways of managing social distance between each other, so it's even harder

Kalisa Hagen (Seemingly) it's only in Jakarta we have that *problem*. People who live/from Yogyakarta or Surabaya -for example- are fine with "aku-kamu" even when they are not romantically linked -in the case of opposite sexes.

Some of my cousins and/or relatives are still living outside Jakarta. At family gatherings, I'm often faced with *dilemma*: which personal pronouns I should use.

"lu/lo-gue/gue" would be super rude, no doubt about it, because we are not friends - you know that kind of FRIENDS. On the other hands, I want to keep distance to (some of) them, so I don't want to use "aku-kamu" which sound polite and *intimate*.

Problem solving (though awkward sometimes): I mention our names like: "Johnny sudah makan? Kalisa sih sudah." instead of "Kamu sudah makan? Aku sih sudah."

Andreas Alex John Kalisa Hagen bisa pakai "saya"? apakah itu terlalu formal bagi anda??

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Maybe all of us should start using ike-jij or eke/yei or akika

Havent heard that version for soooo long.

Billy James Brightraven Import the English 'Hey you' xD

John Shimmin Since nobody seems to be attempting it... (I don't *think* I wildly misjudged the rules, but do say if I did)

TO REACH suatu GOAL BIG,
maka GOAL tersebut harus DIVIDE REACH GOAL LITTLE,
sampai GOAL LITTLE itu merupakan GOAL THAT WILL (another "reach" term?),
berdasarkan CONDITION dan POTENTIAL THAT dimiliki saat itu

Educated guess:
To attain a great goal,
you must first divide it into many small goals,
each little goal leads towards the goal that you wish to reach
providing the conditions that enable you to fulfil it

Maria Weidner Wait for Arief, he'll tell you!

but thanks a lot! We all speak Indonesian, so we are not allowed to participate!! Thank you!

Maria Weidner The last sentence is not quite right yet...

and "that you wish to reach" is not right either

Brandon James Heinrich Is this round an Indonesian translation

Maria Weidner yes. John did almost all the work already, here it is again:Untuk mencapai suatu tujuan besar,
maka tujuan tersebut harus dibagi-bagi menjadi tujuan kecil,
sampai tujuan kecil itu merupakan tujuan yang dapat dicapai,
berdasarkan kondisi dan potensi yang dimiliki saat itu"

Kalisa Hagen Dharmavijaya Mahadewajayathara Ya, bisa. Tapi untuk berkomunikasi dengan yang seumuran atau lebih muda atau lebih tua sedikit, rasanya agak *aneh* menggunakan "saya". Bagi saya loh. Hehe

Vincensiu Denis Haha, I still use that for fun.

Billy James Brightraven Javisst! Eller "du" och "ni"(?)

Andreas Alex John Kalisa Hagen asalku Sumedang..bahasa ku sunda.... mungkin sj bahasaku terlalu formal kayaknya..

Brandon James Heinrich My rough "translation", not knowing if anything is correct at all:

For/to achieve one destination big/great, then mentioned must (divide-for ???) become objective small that/it constitue objective who/that/which {can be achieved}, {[be] based on} {condition of} :and: potency who/that/which owned occasion/moment/instant that/it.

????? How the heck did I get this, and is it anywhere near correct?

I think the first sentence is "To achieve one big/great destination,...

Arief Wibowo John Shimmin, welcome to the game! Your first two parts are okay (there's simple English equivalents, for example: we dont usually 'attain' goals, we 'reach' goals).
The last two parts aren't.

Brandon James Heinrich, wecome to the round! Great translation, try to rearrange it into an acceptable English sentence.
Extra points for "potency"!

Arief Wibowo Vincensiu Denis, Dutch pronouns?
I have heard, but never used them in conversation.
The only time I don't feel guilty using foreign pronouns is in Malaysian, for example, "I nak jumpa you" instead of "saya nak jumpa awak" meaning "I want (to) meet you".

Arief Wibowo Brandon James Heinrich, out of the 18 rounds I won, I only really know 1, which is... Indonesian (that was before we have this rule of 'unfair advantage'). I neither speak nor read Hindi (last round)

Brandon James Heinrich To achieve a major goal,
then the goal should be broken down into smaller goals,
up small goals that are attainable goal,
based on the condition and potential of the momen

Brandon James Heinrich Is it correct

Arief Wibowo I wonder, where did you get sampai=up?
And I have confirmed (albeit not literally) that potensi is potency, not potential

Brandon James Heinrich Should I fix it?

Arief Wibowo Yes you should, but I am rather curious the source that says sampai=up... Which book/website was it from?

Brandon James Heinrich I was using a dictionary

Brandon James Heinrich I don't know the name

Brandon James Heinrich To achieve a major goal,
(then) the goal should [then??] be broken down into smaller goals,
(to?) small goals that are attainable goals,
based on the condition and potency of the moment "

Arief Wibowo Do you remember the link to that dictionary? I would like to knock on their door and tell them that sampai doesn't mean "up"

Brandon James Heinrich No I don't

Brandon James Heinrich But is my edited translation correct?

Arief Wibowo The first two lines are great now. There's another word that has similar meaning with "to", which is more suitable when you have a repetitive action.

And "of the moment" isn't grammatically correct. What is a good preposition for "the/this moment"?

Brandon James Heinrich About??

Arief Wibowo Nope, not "about"

Brandon James Heinrich I have no idea

Christian James Meredith BTW Brandon just gonna add that using Google translate isn't allowed, just because Google translate is the only thing that pulls up "up" from "sampai" (it's not a logical translation from a normal dictionary, and its a tell-tale mark of Google haha).

If you used a dictionary that got the word from Google translate, I'd recommend ditching it haha. Normally Wiktionary is good enough but sometimes kamus.net (I think its called) helps too.

But don't worry, if you did use Google translate well keep going on, sometimes this happens. Just thought I'd put it out there anyway so everyone's on the same page given that there's lots of people.

Arief Wibowo John Shimmin, your turn to try out

Brandon James Heinrich Who says I don't check my translations -_-

Brandon James Heinrich Whatever. I suck at this game anyways.

Christian James Meredith Hmmm as for Brandon's last bit, think of the preposition you use for "I am going to the museum (insert time here)".

Christian James Meredith Brandon Heinrich bollocks, you don't suck! You've done very well.

Arief Wibowo Christian James Meredith, yeap, http://kamus.net/ and my current favorite http://en.bab.la/dictionary/indonesian-english/

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Arief Wibowo Don't you realise that the transgenders in Indo always use ike/ eke/ akika when they are refering to "I" and jij/yei for "kamu"??

I'm nearly died... I should be in bed hours ago...
Had a really harsh day at work plus having to sort this dental things after work

I'm going to bed now.... see you in few hours

Arief Wibowo Vincensiu Denis, I don't, but most probably because I only know 2-3 Indonesian transgenders

Hmm hmm... Selaställemat somdur

Christian James Meredith I better not go using ike or yei then :-/

Arief Wibowo Game is stalling

Kalisa Hagen lol, Christian, you better not!
eike and yei and its variation are OK for female - a little *bitchy* though.
But male using those would sound girly or trandgender-ly

Christian James Meredith Arief, game is ställing.

Arief Wibowo Let's wait for John Shimmin to come back and try to win this...

Arief Wibowo Sarah Karoline:
Untuk mencapai suatu tujuan besar,
maka tujuan tersebut harus dibagi-bagi menjadi tujuan kecil,
sampai tujuan kecil itu merupakan tujuan yang dapat dicapai,
berdasarkan kondisi dan potensi yang dimiliki saat itu

Welcome back!

Sarah Karoline 47 hours of work over four days has ended so now I can play Språkspelet. Lets see what my worn out mind can come up with... First I'm going to locate some online Indonesian resources. This game has inspired me to learn some Indonesian, so I've ordered a textbook from an online shop!

How quiet it's been here in Indonenska!

Sarah Karoline Is that the original text? A saga?

Arief, it's good to be back!

Arief Wibowo Interesting, that textbook and 3 GB from torrent would be enough I guess

I am trying to ignore the calling of the waters, still have something to do. I misunderstood a requirement for the gallery page, and now has to redo the whole page from zero...

It's not really a saga

I found that quote as a preamble* to pemrograman modular (modular programming)

* I mean the quote that begins a chapter in a textbook

Sarah Karoline I ordered two books a friend used when she learned Indonesian. I'm sure I'll be "fluent in three minutes..." haha

Do modular programming books come with philosophical texts?! The project I've just completed, which involved embedding 1001 hyperlinks into a spreadsheet, came with a 32-page guideline that unfortunately had no poetry or philosophies in it!

Arief Wibowo Indeed, the quote was attributed to Al-Khwarizmi (but I can't verify it)... Guess who is that guy?

Arief Wibowo The number is very very familiar... By any chance you meant fluent in three months?

Sarah Karoline "fluent in three months" is so passé. Now it's "fluent in 3 minutes".

Arief Wibowo Hahaha, okay, 3 minutes it is

Sarah Karoline I looked up "Al-Khwarizmi " the other day and discovered he was a Persian astronomer and mathematician, and also a Sweindoneska expert!
Fluency in Sweindoneska only requires contemplation of the stars for three minutes, and a positive mindset. Thus the goal is achieved.
Searching for the Indonesian text to translate!

Sarah Karoline Mbak Kalisa, kalau aku ngomong bahasa Indonesia, jauh lebih textbook daripada mereka berdua.
Aku bahkan tidak pernah mengucapkan "sih" sama sekali
Is this the text?

Arief Wibowo Try searching for etymology of the word algorithm

Arief Wibowo Oh, that was part of our chat. The challenge text is the "saga":
Untuk mencapai suatu tujuan besar,
maka tujuan tersebut harus dibagi-bagi menjadi tujuan kecil,
sampai tujuan kecil itu merupakan tujuan yang dapat dicapai,
berdasarkan kondisi dan potensi yang dimiliki saat itu

Sarah Karoline Algorythm: Started by Al Gore!!! I know this one!!! hahahahahahaah

Arief Wibowo Noooooooo

Sarah Karoline Oh dear, I've failed to decipher the text from the chat! What an embarassing mistake!
Algorithym is also the name of an Australian band, and also a set of rules established by Al-Khwārizmī for data-processing.
His surname is related to the word "river"
Algorithm is from Old French for "algorisme" meaning "the Arabic numeral system" and is a mangled translation of al-Khwārizmī's name. al-Khwārizmī "introduced maths to the west." Euclid had something to do with it too. I vaguely remember that Euclid discovered something to do with time-space shifts....

Arief Wibowo Yeap yeap, so Al-Khwarizmi is the father of algorithms

During high school I used to carry his photo in my wallet -- that's how much nerdy I am.

Biggest translingual hint: if you see a fellow Språkspeler's name, it's most likely a chat

Sarah Karoline hahah, I just saw a long line of text, so I thought it was the text. I didn't read it.. oops!
Al-Khwārizmī is also the patron saint of Javaholm. He is mentioned in the Sweindoneska sagas of "Ragnajakarta" where he helps steer Naglfar using the position of the moon and the Conställazione as guidance.

Arief Wibowo Yay

Sarah Karoline I'll attempt some translation...

Sarah Karoline Still looking up words... Ironically "itu" is a Swedish word. "Klipp itu" - "cut into two".

Christian James Meredith I might go through this text actually and Sweindoise some words once it's officially translated

Arief Wibowo "klipp itu" will more or less work in Indonesian too

I am finally done with gallery module, going to heed the call of the waters now, see you guys later...

Christian James Meredith, help me be the judge for this round

Sarah Karoline Bye Arief

Christian James Meredith Ragnajakarta... I love it.
What's Naglfar? Naga + something else?

Sarah Karoline Naglfar is the name of the boat (made out of dead men's nails ~ nagl = nail, far = traveller (poetic term for a vehicle)) that Flóki steered to Ragnarök. I'll find you the poem. It's great (if you love mythology!)

Sarah Karoline First line of the Indonesian text:
In order to achieve a major goal
--
Still looking for the Ragnarök story online...

Christian James Meredith Aaah! I wonder if we can Sveindoise it? (Naglfar) Tackrima Kärsih förtuk explaining!

Sarah Karoline The introduction to the epic poem that leads to Ragnarök: http://www.northvegr.org/the%20eddas/the%20poetic%20edda%20%20-%20thorpe%20translation/voluspa%20-%20the%20valas%20prophecy%20page%201.html

Sarah Karoline Under "attestations" is the one of the best parts of the poem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naglfar ["Naglfari" seems to be Icelandic nominative form, if that's helpful to its Sweindoising!] Is there a similar word to "mover"/"traveller" in Indonesian?]
There are a few words I can't find in the Sprogspel text. I'm still working on it...

John Shimmin How about:
To achieve a major goal,
the goal should be broken down into small goals,
into small goals that are attainable,
based on our current condition and ability

Sarah Karoline Yours looks much better than mine, John I'm still unable to find several words!

What does our moderator, Christian, have to say?

Christian James Meredith Ok, stepping in for Arief here:
John, your translation is basically correct in spirit. I think everyone here more or less gets what the meaning is now anyway.

Now it just needs some tidying up!

I will highlight in ALL-CAPS

the words I think need more clarification, just so we can get a stronger feel for the text. Whoever can clarify these all correctly more or less wins if they build on what John and Brandon have said.

"Untuk mencapai SUATU tujuan BESAR,
maka tujuan TERSEBUT harus dibagi-bagi MENJADI tujuan kecil,
SAMPAI tujuan kecil ITU MERUPAKAN tujuan yang dapat dicapai,
berdasarkan kondisi dan potensi yang DIMILIKI SAAT itu"

=======

Some notes to aid you all:
- SUATU - Indonesian doesn't need an indefinite article, yet this is being translated as such. That should ring some warning bells.

- BESAR - major works, but it doesn't contrast with "kecil" well.

- TERSEBUT (sebut is the root, ter- is a sort of passive)

- MENJADI - think of this verb as being in the infinitive (to _____) when translating.

- SAMPAI - this is not up, this is not into. Examine the Indonesian phrase "Sampai jumpa!" (a farewell)

- ITU - don't forget to ttranslate this

- MERUPAKAN (rupa is the root) - please translate this word

- DIMILIKI (milik is the root)

- SAAT [itu] - this sentence may help with the context of this word: "pada saat itu, aku takut sekali".

Sarah Karoline Thus far I have the following:
In order to achieve a major goal,
the major goal (it) has to be subdivided into smaller goals,
(Here it goes pear-shaped)
Until great [kecil itu merupakan] great [yang] able [dicapi]
based on conditions and potential [yang] having moment

Christian James Meredith Sarah Karoline, please look at my post above, I forgot to tag you in it

Christian James Meredith Sarah Karoline, note the the Sveindo verb form, di- -as, when you want to translate "dimiliki".

Sarah Karoline Christian
I saw your post. I've been reading through it, and also reading about the formation of Indonesian words

I feel rather useless at anything non-Germanic, non-Slavic and non-Italic. I need to improve my skills!

Christian James Meredith I applaud your dedication!

Christian James Meredith http://marks.dk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/slow-clap.gif

Sarah Karoline hahaha

Sarah Karoline I've heard of "pada saat" somewhere... and "saat" also means the same in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian and Finnish. I guess that confirms its Slovene and Slovak roots

hihihi
Edit: I didn't just write "it's".... Doh!

Arief Wibowo Yay for "until" to begin 3rd sentence. It's an algorithm terminology (repeat [...] until [...])

John's guess is generally okay. Just a bit of touch up in the last line (to better indicate the time/'when'). What's another way to say "current", without referencing a specific time?

Christian James Meredith Ah, yes, indeed sampai = until, sorry Sarah! See, this is what happens when you leave me in charge of someone else's round

Sarah Karoline Christian:
At least you didn't write "it's" instead of "its" as I've just done.... I'm not alert!

Kalisa Hagen A lot of Indonesian words are of Dutch, Sanskrit, Arabic, Chinese (Mandarin/Hokkien), and Portuguese origins (probably also Slavic languages). If you know those, then you have an advantage. And Indonesian is grammatically not very complicated either - so, I've been told.

Sarah Karoline Arief: "Pada saat": during / at the time when / whilst
Kalisa: Thank you for the etymology. I'm still searching....
p.s. I can't tag!

Christian James Meredith Well, it's not grammatically complex... Until you get to ke--an, ter-, pen--an, pen-, per-, per--an, se--nya etc

(they're still easy, but they trip up students thinking "easy" = "same as English grammar"

)

Sarah, the second one is most correct. "Saat" is a noun here. And it's not "during" or "whilst" in terms of continuous duration either.

Arief Wibowo Oh noes, Sarah misunderstood the meaning of "tujuan" and "besar".

Indonesian adjective order is reverse of English's, for example, fried rice = nasi goreng (fried=goreng, rice=nasi)
One way is to think of it as: fried rice = rice (that's) fried = nasi goreng
(I'm so so hungry)

Now do it backwards, what would be tujuan besar or tujuan kecil?

Sarah Karoline Christian A friend studied Indonesian. I remember her laments about affixes

Arief Hello again! I know the term "nasi goreng". That I've heard a l o t!
I think my mind is running upside down

Kalisa Hagen Sarah Karoline I think I've *accidentally* changed my FB setting yesterday, but...hmmm...I *don't know* how to revert it.

lol, Christian James Meredith, just get rid of those affixes. You can say "Saya makan ayam" instead of "Saya memakan ayam".

Well, OK, that is me--kan, but it's a part of *it*.

Arief Wibowo Saat is stjalcuri-ed from Arabic

Kalisa, and it works the other way around too. I beat many many rounds by using Indonesian vocabularies

Sarah Karoline Hm...

Christian James Meredith 「Saat」 distjälcuris dafrån Båsa Arabija

Christian James Meredith (I through out a grammar hint for anyone paying attention)

Arief Wibowo Because the me- prefix is optional (makan=memakan), there's a joke: fried rice with chicken is nasi goreng ayam, which could be understood as rice is cooking the chicken (nasi menggoreng ayam)

Arief Wibowo Nice brackets. Is that standard quotation marks in Sveindo?

Sarah Karoline You, Arief and Kalisa have given me/us lots of hints, but my mind is still running in circles. I hve an extra strong cappuccino to help me...

Christian James Meredith It's from Japanese, I thought it'd look cool haha. Wanna use them for Sveindo, despite the horrible kerning?

Christian James Meredith Sarah Karoline, just take it nice and slow, and analyse what we've said.

Actually, what you're translating is great advice for.. well.. translating itself xD

Sarah Karoline I'm a translator (som yrke), but I iz not tranzlatin' well so weit.

Christian James Meredith Sarah, oh, a professional translator? I'll have to interrogate you for details on that profession as a wannabe one myself!

Maria Weidner Me too! I am studying translation at the moment (well, more or less...lazy at the moment, but soon I'll have a few exams

)

Sarah Karoline Christian: Translation (and private or college teaching) are two of my jobs. They're both seasonal, and the former is hard to get into full-time without 25 years of experience, at least that's how it has been for me. I think availability of jobs, and thus working full-time hours, is dependent on language combination.
You can interrogate me!

Maria I didn't do a translation degree, but I may do an MA in it sometime. So far I'm getting away without having one!

Christian James Meredith Hmm, interesting! Thanks Sarah! I guess it's a different career to your typical 9-5 7-day week job in terms of hours and stability?

Sarah Karoline If you freelance, you can choose to work 9-5, but I think it'll limit the amount of work you get, or the countries you can work with.
If you work for a translation company, then you can do 9-5, although working overtime will be required, but your career and income would be (more) stable.
Being a freelancer has its advantages in that you can pick and choose what you do, set minimum rates and if you're lucky a company may ask you to be part of their small translation team.
Hint: A specialisation of a scientific or technical topic is advantageous, as there are a plethora of such documents requiring translation

Arief Wibowo I used to be a translator too (gak mau kalah!/), I used to translate a logistics system from Oracle Forms to PHP-MySQL

Arief Wibowo Yeah, that's the problem... Perhaps we should only use ASCII-encodable letters

Arief Wibowo ("problem" was referring the Japanese quotation marks)

Sarah Karoline I imagine there are lots of programming translations required? Had to look up ASCII-letters! haha

Arief Wibowo Try asciitable.com

Arief Wibowo Sorry for jargons again

Sarah Karoline As you will have realised I'm getting nowehere with this translation. I think my mind has gone on a cruise with Naglfar to Ragnakarta!
Arief That website looks as complicated as your sentence

Is translating a programme rewriting it?
[Tagging not working again today, and my awol mind is hindering my ability to write English.

]

Arief Wibowo Yup, rewriting it from zero, but we sometimes need to write equivalent of the existing function, in a different language (this is the translation job). Compare PL/SQL and PHP (in Wikipedia), totally different

Sarah Karoline Maria Do you do translating now?
Arief: http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL It's in Albanian! haha

Arief Wibowo Hahaha, btw PL/SQL isn't SQL, but extension of it

Christian James Meredith @Aried they can be the formal quotation marks, and this can be an issue of modernisation and language in Sveindonesish applied linguistics introductionary courses in Sveindonesish universities

Christian James Meredith Mind the terrible spelling on phone

Brandon James Heinrich Can I post something for you guys until this guy gets back to try and win. I'm bored.

Arief Wibowo In fact I am sorry for slow/incomplete/late replies from my humble Nokia 110. Yes it can, or perhaps just for brackets?

Arief Wibowo Brandon, we are sorry, we only have single round stream, no new rounds until the current one is solved

Christian James Meredith We can sorta do minigames though can't we?

Christian James Meredith Or does your bot not like them?

Christian James Meredith Brandon James Heinrich go ahead, try something on me in the meantime

Arief Wibowo It's okay to have a minigame, but it won't be tagged as an official round

It has happened before within the first 10 rounds by someone named Juan (or Joan or similar).

(btw, we usually have minigames after round ends, not during)

Sarah Karoline Sorry I got sidetracked. I was multitasking Indonesian research, and searching for etymologies of Indonesian words.
I'm going to have lunch and then attempt a second translation...

John Shimmin I'm running out of ways to adjust the translation...
To achieve any big goal,
then that goal should be divided to become smaller goals,
until those small goals are goals that can be reached,
based on the conditions and ability we have now

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter FINALLY!!! MY DAY OFF FROM HELL!!!
Oh Dear!! Feel so refreshed today, waking up without any burden in my mind...

back to sprogspelet:

John Shimmin you are nearly there!!
The words in capital are still incorrect

only 2 more words need to be fixed.

Untuk mencapai suatu tujuan besar,
maka tujuan tersebut harus dibagi-bagi menjadi tujuan kecil,
sampai tujuan kecil itu MERUPAKAN tujuan yang dapat dicapai,
berdasarkan kondisi dan potensi yang dimiliki saat ITU

Sarah Karoline Welcome back, Vincensiu. I'm glad your nightmare week is over too

"Itu" seems to mean "this/those/that"

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter My apologies John Shimmin, I just woke up and wasn't concentrating enough...

you have translated merupakan correctly. Basically your translation is almost correct, except the last part:

I'm running out of ways to adjust the translation...
To achieve any big goal,
then that goal should be divided to become smaller goals,
until those small goals are goals that can be reached,
based on the conditions and ability we have (NOW)

now in Indonesian is "sekarang"
saat itu has got other meaning....

John Shimmin "at that moment" / "at that time"?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter yup, to make it official, arrange them together!

Kalisa Hagen "Untuk mencapai suatu tujuan besar, maka tujuan tersebut harus dibagi-bagi menjadi tujuan kecil, sampai tujuan kecil itu merupakan tujuan yang dapat dicapai, berdasarkan kondisi dan potensi yang dimiliki saat itu."

Baru nyadar, kata "merupakan" di soal ini, bukannya lebih tepat diganti dengan "menjadi" ya, Mas Arief Wibowo?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I think Arief has slept. But I agree with you!

Kalisa Hagen Because that might be one of the things that confuse people.

Arief Wibowo Yes! John Shimmin got it, and he will be the victor once he fix the last bit and post the complete sentence (sorry for a bit of bureaucracy over this)

And I get insomnia.

Kalisa Hagen, I think either:
sampai tujuan kecil itu merupakan [...]
(until those small goals are reachable)
or:
sampai tujuan besar itu menjadi [...]
(until the big goal become reachable)

Arief Wibowo And welcome back, Vincensiu Denis!

I guess most of the times when you guys thought I am away, I suddenly spring back to life

Kalisa Hagen Still, "merupakan" is *janggal* for me in this case.

Anyway, let somebody win this round!

Arief Wibowo Yes, John Shimmin is the potential victor, he needs to do just two things:
1. post the complete text
2. post his round

Arief Wibowo Kalisa Hagen, pardon the quotemaster (since I ställcuri that from a book) and me

Arief Wibowo Sarah Karoline, I guess now you know why Christian James Meredith said this quote is a great advice for translating... Or any other works

Sarah Karoline Arief I thought CJM was talking generally. I didn't realise it had something to do with the text!

My mind is still very far away in Javaholm (resting on a sunny beach) today. Not a lot of information is sinking in

Maria Weidner Sarah I won't have a MA in translating either. What I do is distance learning to be able and allowed to take the official exam for translators in Germany. then (if I'll ever reach it) I will be "staatlich geprüfter Übersetzer". I didn't do any translations until now, because I don't get any! Even when I offer to translate something for free - no way. I wonder how I'll ever get some references...

Arief Wibowo Maria Weidner, perhaps try https://www.odesk.com/ ? That website is quite hot in my IT circle, and it has translator section too

Maria Weidner Yes, and they'll ask for your CV and and references..and I f you have none.. good bye. It's a vicious circle!

John Shimmin I'm at work! Sorry, I'll get to it a bit later on...

Arief Wibowo John Shimmin, have a good day at work

Remember to celebrate your first Språkspelet win afterwards, probably with a slice of kako-kako and a glass of kako-suskyr

Arief Wibowo Maria Weidner, good point

Maria Weidner I am wondering how I'll ever get my first translation! (spanish, by the way)

Sarah Karoline Maria Freelance translators, and as far as I know in-house translators in the UK, don't need an official certificate. At least I don't know anyone who has one..

Try Proz.com and Translatorscafe.com. No certification required here either, nof experience!

All you have to do is upload your CV, and you'll get bombarded with requests. It'll likely take several hundred declines before you are taken on by one or employers. The work is often sporadic at first, but it does pick up (over a very long period of time if you're unlucky - language pair/s and topics of interest play a decisive role in the amount of jobs available!). Often employers will call back the same translators, so it's a matter of remaining hopeful, and doing other work in the meantime. And the cheaper the rate per word/hour you accept, the more translating opportunities there will be for "newcomers". Oh, and "newcomers" don't get to be called "experienced" for about 10 years!

"HOFFNUNG, ES GIBT IMMER HOFFNUNG!"

Maria Weidner But there is no translation experience yet in my CV, that's the biggest problem.

Oh, and since I am in Germany..here you need a paper and documents for everything!" May I breath please?" "Your official permit!"

Sarah Karoline "Where there's kako-kako and kako-suskyr there's förhoppning", as they say in a region of Sweindonenska.

Arief Wibowo I honestly have no idea how I have gotten this far (8th professional year next april) without sending CV out. I am still required to send CV after getting the job though. Probably the IT universe works in a different way.

By the way, my "sweet dreams" pill is taking effect, I will really go to sleep now... See you all in few hours

Sarah Karoline I've managed to work for German companies (some based abroad), despite no "papers"

The breathing permit is harder to get than the residential one, I hear! :):):)
You don't need translation experience for proz.com and translatorscafe.com. I'd done a translation module at university, just one, but the language I mainly translate from, I have no translation experience in. Just enthusiasm! haha

Maria Weidner today I had a swedish student in "my" class ( I am only filling in (?) for someone at the moment) . I'd almost shouted "ställe, ställe" while running away...

Arief Wibowo Antusiasme yang mantap! (great enthusiasm!)
↑ I guess you will speak this language in no time

Maria Weidner What language are you translating from?

Arief Wibowo Yes, Maria Weidner, filling in is correct.
Remember the proverb, saying ställe will only give you ställe

Sarah Karoline Arief "Söta dröma" - ? in Sweindoneska. A task for someone with knowledge of Indonesian!

Arief and Maria Let's all work in I.T! There are m a s s e s of translation jobs within I.T., actually...

You should have shouted it to see her reaction! Or said
"Ich ställde Dir ein ställ as your pronunciation is ställtastic."

John Shimmin "To achieve any big goal,
then that goal should be divided to become smaller goals,
until those small goals are goals that can be reached,
based on the conditions and ability we have at that time."

Maria Weidner his reaction. But I didn't want to leave a bad first impression!

Sarah Karoline His reaction would have been fantastic! The type of thing that gets instragrammed and uploaded to FB!

Arief Wibowo John Shimmin is the victor! It's your turn now

Sarah Karoline John CONGRATULATIONS on winning this complex round!

Maria Weidner hahahahaha, somehow I doubt it!

Sarah, which language do you translate?

Sarah Karoline Your language mostly

:), but also Swedish and Norwegian.

Arief Wibowo And for Maria Weidner, this guy is looking for "Anything you've got" in spanish:
https://www.odesk.com/jobs/Articles-and-web-content-editor_~0190b86005f54ee5c1?search_result=1
(you must be logged in to see the link above)

Maria Weidner Thank you!! But wait, It is english - spanish? I am only able (as every good translator should do it) to translate from spanish to my nativ language. I don't translate into spanish...

Arief Wibowo Sarah Karoline, sönis drömpi probably, but in my case, it's a brand of sleeping pills (hence I don't usually say sweet dreams to anyone

)

Maria Weidner Sarah, Ok, now I understand why you could translate the abwasserwirksam stuff in no time!

Round
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