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Arief Wibowo Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome again, hailing from Southern Europe, a language old and wise, called Latin:
"QVI IN BOCCA VERITATIS MANVS INTRODVCET SOLVM SI EST SINCERVM INTEGRA EXTRAHET!"
- MAXIMVS
"QVI IN BOCCA VERITATIS MANVS INTRODVCET SOLVM SI EST SINCERVM INTEGRA EXTRAHET!"
- MAXIMVS
Adrian Baxt-Dent Is there a standard ending for verbs and nouns in latin? I am assuming (from binomial nomenclature of fruits) that the -us ending is for nouns?
Adrian Baxt-Dent is bocca mouth? (From watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer: the town they lived in, "Sunnydale," was originallly called "Bocca del Inferno" or the hell mouth.)
Adrian Baxt-Dent Either Arief Wibowo has disappeared, or our attempts so far are so far from the mark that no comment is warranted.... 
Sarah Karoline Adrian Whilst Arief cries with laughter, here are some resources I was given a few weeks ago:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/manus#Latin http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=VERITATIS+&la=la
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/manus#Latin http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=VERITATIS+&la=la
Arief Wibowo (my refereeing skill is a bit rusty)
From Adrian Baxt-Dent's first attempt:
Who, in truth hand {introduces} [solemn] you is sincere {together}, [extra hot].
Bocca = mouth: yes
Extra points for Mr. Pointy
Unfortunately, my Latin isn't good enough to answer that question
Cue Billy James Brightraven
From Adrian Baxt-Dent's first attempt:
Who, in truth hand {introduces} [solemn] you is sincere {together}, [extra hot].
Bocca = mouth: yes
Extra points for Mr. Pointy
Unfortunately, my Latin isn't good enough to answer that question
Cue Billy James Brightraven
Sarah Karoline Who, in truth of mouth introduces his hand is sincerely altogether in his mind - woh, extra hot. [That wasn't serious.. Just waiting for the page to load the dictionary]
Adrian Baxt-Dent Sarah Karoline. it is a Buffy reference. She had a stake, for killing vampires with. SHe named the stake Mr. Pointy.
Arief Wibowo Though it probably could be extra hot....
Btw, "introducet" isn't exactly "introduce", but the same idea...
Let me introduce you to http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Pointy
Btw, "introducet" isn't exactly "introduce", but the same idea...
Let me introduce you to http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Pointy
Sarah Karoline Sorry, I can't participate in this round anymore, as I'm watching Buffy kill vampires... [haha]
Sarah Karoline My mind has been hijacked by Angel... I can't do anything other than mope and dither....
Sarah Karoline EXTRAHET - you will release/remove. [Hm..., I'm going nowhere. Adrian is doing much better!]
Andy Ayres Awesome idea for a round, Sarah! Would have loved to have taken part (the Germanic parts weren't too hard to understand, but the Greek and Slavic parts would have taken a while to learn) but was working all day and night, and by the time I returned, the translation was so complete that it would have felt like complete thievery rather than mere stjälcuri ;). I for one would enjoy seeing another multilingual round down the line. Glad you like my review system!
Will have to sit this one out; I have studied Latin and Romance languages too much to feel honest about intervening :p
Will have to sit this one out; I have studied Latin and Romance languages too much to feel honest about intervening :p
Arief Wibowo Using Sarah Karoline's old referee method:
SINCERVM EXTRAHET
Andy Ayres, perhaps you can help me co-moderate? It's about time for me to disappear into the night again
SINCERVM
EXTRAHET Andy Ayres, perhaps you can help me co-moderate? It's about time for me to disappear into the night again
Andy Ayres I'd love to help, Arief, but unfortunately I'm only on my lunch break! I've another nine minutes left and then I'm on the clock for another seven hours. The weekdays are very hectic for me; but hopefully, I'll be able to help out on another occasion
Sarah Karoline Andy "Stjälcuring" covers a wide range of plagiarism and theft in this Sweindo world. I'll find another multilingual text, were I to win again...
Your review system has been officially stjälcuried by moi.
Your review system has been officially stjälcuried by moi.
Arief Wibowo By the way, have you guys seen this coin-operated machine?
(this is where I stjalcuried that text from )
(this is where I stjalcuried that text from
)Arief Wibowo [tumbleweed passes by]
What we have (with extra singular subjects, for free):
He who inserts his hand {in} the mouth of truth (SI) (EST) sincere (INTEGRA) (EXTRAHET)
Hints:
* "IN": there's another preposition that works in synergy with "insert"
* Word order
* Arief Wibowo is going to sleep now and shall return at around 22 UTC
What we have (with extra singular subjects, for free):
He who inserts his hand {in} the mouth of truth (SI) (EST) sincere (INTEGRA) (EXTRAHET)
Hints:
* "IN": there's another preposition that works in synergy with "insert"
* Word order
* Arief Wibowo is going to sleep now and shall return at around 22 UTC
Sarah Karoline Version 2: stjälcuried and modified for better or worse...
He who inserts his hand inTO the mouth of truth is himself sincere. RENEW/BEGIN (...imperative?) I wll prolong! (<-hm..)
He who inserts his hand inTO the mouth of truth is himself sincere. RENEW/BEGIN (...imperative?) I wll prolong! (<-hm..)
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter into is correct.
est = is
si = ?
integra & extrahet is neither renew nor begin
est = is
si = ?
integra & extrahet is neither renew nor begin
Sarah Karoline He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth, if he is sincere, will start anew.
---
---
Sarah Karoline I was hoping it was. Is it just the "extra hot with triple chilli" ending we need to sort out?
Sarah Karoline Version 3: He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth, if he is sincere, will remove it.
---
extrahet = 3. person singular future active of "extrahō" according to Wiktionary.
---
extrahet = 3. person singular future active of "extrahō" according to Wiktionary.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter NSIH again, remove is nearly correct and I think it should b acceptable, there's one word missing, INTEGRA!
Arief Wibowo And for the sake of formality, missing the author (MAXIMVS)
(changing one single letter to make it English would do)
(changing one single letter to make it English would do)
Sarah Karoline He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth, if he is sincere, will start to remove it. Maximus.
Arief Wibowo Sorry I was outside for the better part of the day...
Huge hint: What's an integer (both in maths and programming)?
Huge hint: What's an integer (both in maths and programming)?
Sarah Karoline That was a guess, as I can't find a dictionary that provides a translation as "whole"
Sarah Karoline [It's been so long, I can't remember which word I was looking up! In fact I thought I was doing maths exercise where z is .... ]
Arief Wibowo 1. I renew, restore, make whole.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/integro#Latin
Actually it will make sense together with EXTRAHET, which has nothing to do with extra hot chili sauce
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/integro#Latin
Actually it will make sense together with EXTRAHET, which has nothing to do with extra hot chili sauce
Sarah Karoline I've been using that site, and I saw "make", but not "whole".
"Extrahet" looks like a Swedish noun ending!
"Extrahet" looks like a Swedish noun ending!
Sarah Karoline He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth, if he is sincere, will extract it whole.
----
----
Arief Wibowo I think it's mostly okay, except "extract" should probably be the opposite of INTRODVCET...
Which words was NSIH for you, Vincensiu Dionisiu?
Which words was NSIH for you, Vincensiu Dionisiu?
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter "extract" and the last phrase of the sentence could be reworded into a better phrase I guess
Arief Wibowo Remove it whole: yes, but try to rephrase it to make it sound better (<cough>do what it takes to reduce 1 comma</cough>)
Sarah Karoline He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth, if he is sincere, wholly removes it"
Arief Wibowo "Remove it whole" or "withdraw it whole" is okay, integrate* it into the sentence and reorder
* this is the derivative of INTEGRA in English
* this is the derivative of INTEGRA in English
Sarah Karoline He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth, if he is sincere will wholly remove it" [Now that looks like it's lacking a comma because of the "if"-clause. haha]
Arief Wibowo I guess you've got to reorder the words (and I can't confirm nor deny the need for extra word(s)) for it to make sense
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth is correct
the next phrase need to be worked out and reordered. I like the phrase that I said "NSIH" better.
the next phrase need to be worked out and reordered. I like the phrase that I said "NSIH" better.
Sarah Karoline I'm returning for attempt "I've lost count" Thank You Arief Wibowo Vincensiu and Billy for the tips!
Thank You Arief Wibowo Vincensiu and Billy for the tips!Billy James Brightraven Hey Arief, from which century is this quote? Either I'm sleepy-confused or the Latin is a tad strange.
Andy Ayres A little hint - manus may not be the gender that one expects from its ending; think of the gender of its derivative forms in Romance languages 
Sarah Karoline Is "si" and " est" = "if" and is" correct..?
I ask as Vincensiu says "He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth is correct."
I ask as Vincensiu says "He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth is correct."
Andy Ayres Prego :)! my last bit of advice - look at your last translation and look at the original text one more time. I bet the word that is missing will jump out at you; it's one you already know, but haven't placed exactly in the right order/form yet
Sarah Karoline I noticed a few minutes ago that "solvm" has gone awol.
I had been focusing on solving "integra", so hadn't noticed.
I had been focusing on solving "integra", so hadn't noticed.
Andy Ayres Oops, two words missing rather! My English reading skills are worse than my Latin ones today
Sarah Karoline He who inserts his only hand into the mouth of truth, ...
-----Maximus = surname/ great (a great man). Solum = single/only (f.sg.)
-----Maximus = surname/ great (a great man). Solum = single/only (f.sg.)
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter why did you edit?
"He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth" is correct, try not to rearrange them...
unless you got a better way to express it.
"He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth" is correct, try not to rearrange them...
unless you got a better way to express it.
Sarah Karoline I've missed out the word "solvm". As it appears to be a fem.sg. adjective, I thought it matched "manus".
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter hmmm... my Latin is not that good and I'm judging based on the answer that Arief gave me, :S
So I can't help much unfortunately :S
So I can't help much unfortunately :S
Sarah Karoline Nemas problemias! I've matched all the words I've translated against the Latin, and I'm hunting the word I've missed out. [I'll eliminate "only" from that first clause]
I've matched all the words I've translated against the Latin, and I'm hunting the word I've missed out. [I'll eliminate "only" from that first clause]Andy Ayres It's not solum that matches manus, because manus is feminine not neuter, (if it matched manus, it would be sola.) I will be quiet now :p
Sarah Karoline Version 5: He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth, will remove it only if he is wholly sincere. - Manus
Sarah Karoline Hm... Integra = f.sg. nominative and ablative.
Manus is f.sg. nominative.
"Bocca" I can't find in a Latin book, but I'd guess it's feminine, but accusative. [Sorry this is taking me forever and a decade... ]
Manus is f.sg. nominative.
"Bocca" I can't find in a Latin book, but I'd guess it's feminine, but accusative. [Sorry this is taking me forever and a decade...
]Andy Ayres I was wondering the same thing, Billy. Perhaps it's a later version of Latin to that to which we are habituated. Sarah, integer/integra is an adjective here, not an adverb, hence the gender agreement with one of the words *zips mouth now*
*zips mouth now* Sarah Karoline So here is my 7th attempt... He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth, will remove it whole, only if he is sincere. Maximus.
Sarah Karoline [p.s. I have several other versions... Shame Latin classes were cancelled at school ]
]Sarah Karoline Shall I offer some alternatives:
He who inserts his hand into the hand of truth, if he is sincere, will remove it whole.
He who inserts his hand into the hand of truth, if he is clean, will remove it whole.
He who inserts his hand into the hand of truth, will get staked by a bottle of chilli sauce. [Sorry, comedy phrase!]
He who inserts his hand into the hand of truth, if he is sincere, will remove it whole.
He who inserts his hand into the hand of truth, if he is clean, will remove it whole.
He who inserts his hand into the hand of truth, will get staked by a bottle of chilli sauce. [Sorry, comedy phrase!]
Arief Wibowo The answer (thanks to Andy Ayres) is.........:
He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth only draws his hand out whole if he is sincere. Maximus.
He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth only draws his hand out whole if he is sincere. Maximus.
Arief Wibowo The long version is:
He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth only draws his hand out whole if he is sincere or if he add in a bottle of extra-hot-chili-sauce; the mouth can't handle spicy hands. Funny-maximus.
He who inserts his hand into the mouth of truth only draws his hand out whole if he is sincere or if he add in a bottle of extra-hot-chili-sauce; the mouth can't handle spicy hands. Funny-maximus.
Sarah Karoline An even longer version: He who inserts his hand and a bottle of chilli sauce into the mouth of truth, will only withdraw his hand, if he is sincere and offers a bottle of said sauce to the Dark Angel of Sunnydale whilst juggling three stakes and wearing a black cape. [Please see earlier posts to find the purpose behind my steak and cape references :)]
Arief Wibowo But isn't Dark Angel called Angelus?
Now we need CJMV to complete the round
[CJMV is like KJV, with extra kick]
Cue Christian James Meredith
Now we need CJMV to complete the round
[CJMV is like KJV, with extra kick]
Cue Christian James Meredith
Arief Wibowo I guess because bimbo (Italian) originally means child before the meaning gets corrupted somewhere along the way.
Or so said the Wiktionary
KJV is also a version of bible
Or so said the Wiktionary
KJV is also a version of bible
Andy Ayres Any time :). I'm glad that after all that work, no one stjälcuried you when you only had one word left
Sarah Karoline I was surprised nobody did, although after I'd searched "solum" and "sincerum" for the 37time, I partially wished someone had! hahaha
Arief Wibowo Oh yes, while waiting for Sarah Karoline's round, Andy Ayres, I'd translate solum together with introducet (becomes "insert into the bottom"). Am I right or wrong in this approach?
Andy Ayres I can see why you thought that! As well as being an adverb, it's also a noun in nominative case (bottom, ground), from which Spanish suelo, but if it were to mean "into the bottom of the mouth", both bocca and solum would have had to have been put into different cases than the nominative
Sarah Karoline Bocca: the one word whose gender I never found as I couldn't find it in any Latin dictionary. I knew the word from Italian. Is it neuter in Latin?
Andy Ayres "Qui in solum boccæ veritatis manum introducet" (he who puts his hand into the bottom of the mouth of truth) - solum in the accusative, boccæ in the genitive according to my unauthoritative, hobbyist Latin :).
Billy James Brightraven It's 'bucca' in Classical Latin and feminine. It doesn't mean "mouth" yet though. I assume bocca is a later vulgar version of it.
It doesn't mean "mouth" yet though. I assume bocca is a later vulgar version of it.Andy Ayres Bocca (f) is one of those strange things about the text; bucca is how you usually would see the word written, so the text must have been written during or after the period when Latin vowels started shifting :).
Arief Wibowo By the way, the text is from an arcade machine. There's a remote chance that the words are just decorative...
Sarah Karoline I found "bucca" meaning "cheek" in my Oxford Latin Mini dictionary, but I didn't find it in others. The above dictionary gives me no gender, though.
Andy Ayres Exactly, one of the reasons why it couldn't have been bottom of the mouth other than the grammar - you'd need two solums (or rather, sola!) - one as a noun, one as the adverb
Andy Ayres Mouth in Classical Latin was not bocca/bucca, but os (from which oral, I believe!) Another source of confusion from the trickiness of history :p
Arief Wibowo Honestly I only find bocca in Italian, probably a code-switch to make the phrase look better?
Billy James Brightraven Nah, probably just late/vulgar Latin. Lat. bucca > VL. bocca, cf. It. bocca, Sp. boca, Fr. bouche, usw.
Arief Wibowo Or could it just simply be the short name for "Bocca della Verita"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bocca_della_Verit%C3%A0
(which is also the name of the arcade)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bocca_della_Verit%C3%A0
(which is also the name of the arcade)
Arief Wibowo I used to wonder whether the arcade machine could eat my hand, before knowing the Latin sentence written below it says exactly that
Andy Ayres I remember getting spooked out by those machines as a kid! I recall seeing some awful movie where someone had half their hand bitten off by the machine and always stayed clear since
Sarah Karoline Ironically the only Latin phrase I know is about a monument.
"If you want to see his monument, turn around" is the translation of the original. What's the original?! [not my text for the new round, just a filler.]
"If you want to see his monument, turn around" is the translation of the original. What's the original?!
[not my text for the new round, just a filler.]Billy James Brightraven Si hoc opus magnificum videre vis, verte?
amending:
SI·HOC·OPVS·MAGNIFICVM·VIDERE·VIS·VERTE
amending:
SI·HOC·OPVS·MAGNIFICVM·VIDERE·VIS·VERTE
Andy Ayres Am I right in thinking that this phrase that you have in mind is of a certain London landmark? (edit - or rather, associated quite deeply with one ;)?)
Billy James Brightraven Unless it's a monument-monument, like a memorial, then replace OPVS MAGNIFICVM with MONUMENTVM.
Sarah Karoline Billy Si - monumentvm - - -
Andy Yes, it's that one.
p.s. I hope I've remembered the translation correctly...
Shall I paste the original?
Andy Yes, it's that one.
p.s. I hope I've remembered the translation correctly...
Shall I paste the original?
Andy Ayres "Lector, si monumentum requiris, circumspice." (Reader, if you seek a monument, look around you.) - epitaph on Wren's tomb in St. Paul's cathedral
Sarah Karoline So my translation was wrong... On this occasion, this was the translation we were given! My apologies, Billy. Your Latin translation I am 100% is a correct translation of my failed translation into English!
Sarah Karoline I have a text. I was going to write another text, but I'm not alert enough to write it right now, so instead of having an overnight gap in the game, here is a text I compiled a few days ago.
Andy Ayres To be fair, the translation they gave you is pretty close, Sarah! And it is not an exceptionally very well-known epitaph. Looking forward to the next round
Sarah Karoline I've not been able to post the new round due to an Adobe update. Now I'm back! [Seek and see aren't too different, but I should have checked beforehand, so you both had the correct text to translate.]
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