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Andy Ayres Ok folks, here's the next round's text :). I was tempted to record it, but I think we could all probably do with a break from the excessive evil that is audio challenges for a while :p.
Please, Don't google words in the text this round, unless you want its content spoilt; google relevant dictionaries and grammars instead :).
Châa Ñuû Côhyo, satûha ró ruatáhán ró,
Coo yachî ro jíín nujîi jíín cuayú.
Ondê chîi ñuhun táan cáhndï,
Jaa te xaân cúu jíín nujîi cáhnu.
Cúnuhnî xinî jíín ndaha yucú oliva,
Cóo tûhun cáhnu inî áchí ndajáhô Ihâ Nchóôx.
Please, Don't google words in the text this round, unless you want its content spoilt; google relevant dictionaries and grammars instead :).
Châa Ñuû Côhyo, satûha ró ruatáhán ró,
Coo yachî ro jíín nujîi jíín cuayú.
Ondê chîi ñuhun táan cáhndï,
Jaa te xaân cúu jíín nujîi cáhnu.
Cúnuhnî xinî jíín ndaha yucú oliva,
Cóo tûhun cáhnu inî áchí ndajáhô Ihâ Nchóôx.
Andy Ayres Sarah, hehe, no ;). Vincensiu - it's not a language spoken in El Salvador, as far as I know 
Sarah Karoline Thanks Google! [A search for "Châa" came up with this. Disclaimer: Nema problema the following words were not the text. :)]
Andy Ayres Because Mixtec is not one language, but instead quite a broad dialect continuum. Really, one could talk of Mixtecan language/s/ rather than the Mixtec language
Sarah Karoline Thanks to Google Search Result filters...
I would like to award Vincensiu with the following for a super quick search:
I would like to award Vincensiu with the following for a super quick search:
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Ok I have to stay out sadly...
Too much googling resulting me in finding what the text is about.
Although I haven't seen the translation yet.
It somehow give me an idea what might be included in the meaning of the text
Too much googling resulting me in finding what the text is about.
Although I haven't seen the translation yet.
It somehow give me an idea what might be included in the meaning of the text
Andy Ayres That's a shame, Vincensiu! Googling is quite dangerous with rounds such as these, where because of the lack of internet presence, you'll almost guaranteed to find the text that it came from.
Anna Robbins I shall rejoin this round in a bit, if it hasn't yet been solved by then 
Sarah, have I now given you some evil ideas for your next hosting?
my apologies to everyone else, in that case!
Andy, yes, every Pole loves to confound foreigners with that xD I should perhaps have written a warning not to use Google for Edmund's sake, but Billy solved it anyway
Sarah, have I now given you some evil ideas for your next hosting?
my apologies to everyone else, in that case! Andy, yes, every Pole loves to confound foreigners with that xD I should perhaps have written a warning not to use Google for Edmund's sake, but Billy solved it anyway
Andy Ayres Therein lies part of the challenge, Dago - the variety of Mixtec variants :). For those who haven't seen the notice, please make sure not to google individual words, as due to advances in its technology, it will give the game away. Do search for mixtec dictionaries and grammars though
Dago Lesmes Suagua I've found that in Yosondúa Mixtec, Ñuko'yo means Mexico. Is it related to the first [Ñuû Côhyo]? Interestingly enough, Ñuû means land (but don't ask me what's Côhyo because I haven't found it).
Andy Ayres Great deduction, Dago! Ñuû Côhyo is Mexico! The first three words are very close to being Mexican man, but the latter component wouldn't be translated precisely as such
Dago Lesmes Suagua Great. I've found the following...
Ró = You
Cúu = To be/Be able to
Coo = To exist/Shall be
Cáhnu = Must
Ro = Particle used to form the imperative
Jíín = And
Achí = Or
I see imperative and descriptive clauses. It's definitely a poem or story directed towards Mexicans.... Kind of like instructing them to do something.
Ró = You
Cúu = To be/Be able to
Coo = To exist/Shall be
Cáhnu = Must
Ro = Particle used to form the imperative
Jíín = And
Achí = Or
I see imperative and descriptive clauses. It's definitely a poem or story directed towards Mexicans.... Kind of like instructing them to do something.
Andy Ayres One of the things that delight me is how well documented many Mexican languages are - if only all regional, autochtonous and minority languages were so :).
Andy Ayres Some miscellaneous tips for folk - you will often find the circumflex on vowels replaced with a macron in some dictionaries. Some dictionaries also replace "c" with "k"/"s" 
Dago Lesmes Suagua Okay...... It's definitely Yosondúa Mixtec or San Miguel El Grande Mixtec. They're highly intelligible, and I've found great dictionaries for both!
Andy Ayres Correct, Dago! It is the latter, though there are a great number of similarities with the former that can help decipher remaining words
Dago Lesmes Suagua I've found the following...
Yucú = Bush, Plant
Yachî = Soon, Easy, Fast
Xinî = Top, Head
Xaân = Very, Sharp, Fierce
Nujîi = Firearm
Ñuhun = Land
Ndaha = Branch
Ondê = Until
Satûha = Prepare, Get Ready
Táan = Shake (Earth)
Tûhun = News, Word, Story
Ndajahô = Messenger, Policeman
Jaa = In loud voice
Inî = Inside, In
Ihâ = God
Chîi = Inside, Stomach
Cóo = Sit
Cahndï = Explode, Thunder
Which carries us here....
[Man] [Mexico Land], [prepare] [you] ruatáhán [you],
[Shall be] [fast] [IMP] [and] [firearm] [and] [horse].
[Until] [inside/stomach] [land] [shakes] [explode],
[In loud voice] [and/but] [fierce/sharp] [to be/can] [and] [firearm] [must].
Cúnuhnî [head/top] [and] [branch] [plant] [olive],
[Sit] [word] [must] [in] [or] [messenger] [God] Nchóôx.
Yucú = Bush, Plant
Yachî = Soon, Easy, Fast
Xinî = Top, Head
Xaân = Very, Sharp, Fierce
Nujîi = Firearm
Ñuhun = Land
Ndaha = Branch
Ondê = Until
Satûha = Prepare, Get Ready
Táan = Shake (Earth)
Tûhun = News, Word, Story
Ndajahô = Messenger, Policeman
Jaa = In loud voice
Inî = Inside, In
Ihâ = God
Chîi = Inside, Stomach
Cóo = Sit
Cahndï = Explode, Thunder
Which carries us here....
[Man] [Mexico Land], [prepare] [you] ruatáhán [you],
[Shall be] [fast] [IMP] [and] [firearm] [and] [horse].
[Until] [inside/stomach] [land] [shakes] [explode],
[In loud voice] [and/but] [fierce/sharp] [to be/can] [and] [firearm] [must].
Cúnuhnî [head/top] [and] [branch] [plant] [olive],
[Sit] [word] [must] [in] [or] [messenger] [God] Nchóôx.
Andy Ayres Most of those words are correct in their dictionary form, but when put into a fully translated form, one or two may change a fair bit
Dago Lesmes Suagua I'll go with...
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and [ruátáhán] the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth. The firearms must be loud and fierce. You must [cúnuhnî] the head of the sitting word messenger of God or [Nchóôx] toward? with an olive leaf.
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and [ruátáhán] the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth. The firearms must be loud and fierce. You must [cúnuhnî] the head of the sitting word messenger of God or [Nchóôx] toward? with an olive leaf.
Andy Ayres Hey, just on the phone with my uncle at the minute, but luckily, I'm able to multitask (with the occasional slip - reading out a Mixtec word to him there, including what he's saying to me in the post here). Here's my first review.
The first part is really good:
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and [ruátáhán] the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce.
The second part should be considered as two separate clauses that have been scrambled into one here. Separate that sentence into two parts split by a comma or semi-colon and you will make a lot of headway on that half
The first part is really good:
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and [ruátáhán] the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce.
The second part should be considered as two separate clauses that have been scrambled into one here. Separate that sentence into two parts split by a comma or semi-colon and you will make a lot of headway on that half
Dago Lesmes Suagua Awesome!!!!!!!!! I'm really loving this Mixtec. I'll try to check each word of the second part again... It seems 'ndaha' means 'branch' in this Mixtec. So now I know there's something with a branch of an olive tree/plant.
Andy Ayres I'm glad you're enjoying it, Dago :D. I'm a big Mexicophile, particularly when it comes to indigenous language - Oto-Manguean languages in general are great, and I love the language isolate, Seri (it has some exceptionally poetic terms!) I'm glad I noticed my sprogspelet documents from last month - if I didn't, I would have forgotten that I'd made this Mixtec text translation for a future round
Andy Ayres Yes, one of ndaha's meanings is branch - and that's the pertinent one for this translation 
Dago Lesmes Suagua Cúnuhnî = ???
Xinî = Top, Head
Jíín = And
Ndaha = Branch
Yucú Oliva = Olive tree/bush/leaf
[Cúnuhnî] the head with the branch of an olive tree.
Shall I assume 'cúnuhní' is "to crown"? I can't seem to find a translation, but seems appropriate for the phrase. Cunu nchaâ is "to hug" and cunu is "to weave", so I guess the particle 'cunu' has something to do with wrapping, covering or encircling.
Xinî = Top, Head
Jíín = And
Ndaha = Branch
Yucú Oliva = Olive tree/bush/leaf
[Cúnuhnî] the head with the branch of an olive tree.
Shall I assume 'cúnuhní' is "to crown"? I can't seem to find a translation, but seems appropriate for the phrase. Cunu nchaâ is "to hug" and cunu is "to weave", so I guess the particle 'cunu' has something to do with wrapping, covering or encircling.
Andy Ayres Awesome deduction :)! You are powering through this translation, Dago :D. That's exactly right - cúnuhn~i means to tie or wrap, especially the way that you would tie or wrap a poultice
Andy Ayres Crown would be best as an idiomatic translation though :). What's really fun is that you've come to find the meaning of the word the same way that I did when I initially did the translation - though when I verified my suspicions, I also found it in some dictionaries, written as kunúhnì
Dago Lesmes Suagua Does "Nchóôx" mean "humming bird"? The last phrase is coming out like...
"There's a big word/message/story in what the Messenger of God [Nchóôx] says".
Cóo = To have, to be
Tûhun = News, Word, Story
Cáhnu = Big, Together
Inî = Inside, In
Achí = Áchí = Says
Ndajahô = Ndajáhâ = Messenger
Ihâ = God
"There's a big word/message/story in what the Messenger of God [Nchóôx] says".
Cóo = To have, to be
Tûhun = News, Word, Story
Cáhnu = Big, Together
Inî = Inside, In
Achí = Áchí = Says
Ndajahô = Ndajáhâ = Messenger
Ihâ = God
Dago Lesmes Suagua New theory, after I've seen "to fight" is cuatáhan (so maybe ruátáhán is a conjugation).
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree, for there's a big message in what the messenger of God Humming Bird says.
I shall point out, though, that it's an extremely "westernized" text. Why would a Mixtec speak about firearms, horses, olive tree or Mexico as a whole?
(Special thanks to this online dictionary... http://www-01.sil.org/mexico/mixteca/sanmiguel/S012b-VocMixtecoFacs-mig.pdf)
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree, for there's a big message in what the messenger of God Humming Bird says.
I shall point out, though, that it's an extremely "westernized" text. Why would a Mixtec speak about firearms, horses, olive tree or Mexico as a whole?
(Special thanks to this online dictionary... http://www-01.sil.org/mexico/mixteca/sanmiguel/S012b-VocMixtecoFacs-mig.pdf)
Dago Lesmes Suagua Second theory..... [Ndajahô] [Ihâ] [Nchóôx] means "angel".... A flying-like-a-humming-bird messenger of God.
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree, for there's a big message in what the angel says.
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree, for there's a big message in what the angel says.
Andy Ayres Just back from getting interrupted! You've almost got it! It is indeed a version of the Mexican national anthem... as you can see, they emphasised poetry and meter over an exact translation, as even some phrases' content has been reördered and comes across quite different from the Spanish translation. I wish you didn't mention the source text yet :p.. but since the round is almost won, no harm I guess!
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree, for [there]('s) [a] {big message} ... in what the angel says.
[] = incorrect, () = wrong position... in the last sentence we'd insert a pronoun where the Mixtec would not to make it fully make sense. Big message/word - almost, but think about what it means metaphorically
Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree, for [there]('s) [a] {big message} ... in what the angel says.
[] = incorrect, () = wrong position... in the last sentence we'd insert a pronoun where the Mixtec would not to make it fully make sense. Big message/word - almost, but think about what it means metaphorically
Dago Lesmes Suagua I have a new proposal, then.......
"Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown his* head with the branch of an olive tree, for what the angel says has an important message"
*the Angel's
"Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown his* head with the branch of an olive tree, for what the angel says has an important message"
*the Angel's
Andy Ayres My darn computer crashed :(. Back now though :)... unfortunately, the second attempt is further removed from the original than the first. The missing pronoun is in the second part of that sentence. Look at what is wrong and, also, where there are gaps
Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree - fine
for [there]('s) [a] {big message}
in what the angel says - fine
`
For {big message}, I'll accept "big + one of the different meanings of tahun". It's not a precise translation, but it's close
Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree - fine
for [there]('s) [a] {big message}
in what the angel says - fine
`
For {big message}, I'll accept "big + one of the different meanings of tahun". It's not a precise translation, but it's close
Dago Lesmes Suagua "Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree, for we have a big TAHUN in what the angel says"
Dago Lesmes Suagua Oh God..... It's getting more and more exciting. The problem is in the missing pronoun and the 'Cóo'... Which can be many things, even a 'snake'. But it also works as a verb that denotes the existence of something. I think it should be....
For our big message is in what the angel says?
For our big message is in what the angel says?
Dago Lesmes Suagua Wait... wait.... Now that I read the lyrics of the anthem, I think I got it.
"Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree, for our destiny* is in what the angel says"
*big news/story/message
"Mexicans, you must quickly prepare and fight, with the firearms and horses! Until an explosion shakes the inside of the Earth, the firearms must be loud and fierce. Crown the head with the branch of an olive tree, for our destiny* is in what the angel says"
*big news/story/message
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter It's still fun to watch
I return to do a bit of researching help, but looks like the congratulation card is ready to be issued
I return to do a bit of researching help, but looks like the congratulation card is ready to be issued
Andy Ayres YES! ¡Enhorabuena! Cóo is a poetic way to say "is [within]" here.. much like in English we might say "our destiny lies in what the angel says." Excellent!
Andy Ayres Xipe Totec, the Mixtec god of springtime and renewal, wishes you congratulations :D.
http://clio.missouristate.edu/chuchiak/New%20Webpage%20Images/Mixtec%20Xipe1.jpg
http://clio.missouristate.edu/chuchiak/New%20Webpage%20Images/Mixtec%20Xipe1.jpg
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter and since we got 2 native speakers here.
Do we say enhorabuena more than felicitaciones??
Do we say enhorabuena more than felicitaciones??
Dago Lesmes Suagua Thank you Xipe Totec!
And answering to your question... At least in Latin America we usually never use the 'enhorabuena', to be honest. It seems to be more of a Peninsular thing.
And answering to your question... At least in Latin America we usually never use the 'enhorabuena', to be honest. It seems to be more of a Peninsular thing.
Andy Ayres *An ethereal "you're welcome" echoes through the sprogspelet halls*
That is true, you hear enhorabuena a fair bit here in Spain (though in some contexts, e.g. birthdays, felicidades is more common), but not so much amongst my friends from Latin America :). One of those funny differences - though not as funny as the difference in the meaning of words like "coger" !
That is true, you hear enhorabuena a fair bit here in Spain (though in some contexts, e.g. birthdays, felicidades is more common), but not so much amongst my friends from Latin America :). One of those funny differences - though not as funny as the difference in the meaning of words like "coger" !
Sarah Karoline Dago: You made that look easy : ) I couldn't find a dictionary and, like Andy, my computers been crashing..
The SPS Winning Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN4cSu45HXI
The SPS Winning Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN4cSu45HXI
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter hahaa cheers guys.
I'm off to bed, hopefully will see some interesting round coming when I wake up.
Y Dago, por favor ten piedad d nos.
No den una ronda d infierna :p
I'm off to bed, hopefully will see some interesting round coming when I wake up.
Y Dago, por favor ten piedad d nos.
No den una ronda d infierna :p
Dago Lesmes Suagua Sarah, did you know I'm an Eurovision fan? I love that song!
And Vincensiu.... We'll see.... We'll see
And Vincensiu.... We'll see.... We'll see
Sarah Karoline Our Swedish speakers may chuck me into a lake for this, but ithe title of this is kinda related to this post-round banter about ESC and the beginnings of your new round: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQgr0aWeFmI
Sarah Karoline I think you can continue the round in this thread. The usual rule is to accrue 500 posts before we start a new thread. [My computer gets more crashy after 500 posts too...]
I may not be able to take part in the round until my morning as I'm the only person still working...
I may not be able to take part in the round until my morning as I'm the only person still working...
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