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Ed Blankenship Round 229:
Нокарда гунаҳ дар ин ҷаҳон кист, бигӯ?
В-он кас ки гунаҳ накарда, чун зист, бигӯ?
Ман бад кунаму ту бад мукофотам диҳи,
Пас фарқ миёни ману ту чист, бигӯ?
Нокарда гунаҳ дар ин ҷаҳон кист, бигӯ?
В-он кас ки гунаҳ накарда, чун зист, бигӯ?
Ман бад кунаму ту бад мукофотам диҳи,
Пас фарқ миёни ману ту чист, бигӯ?
Ed Blankenship I wanted something a bit more obscure, but I couldn't come up with it fast enough (it's a language I'm still learning). So this will do for now 
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Good on y, sadly I have to go now and can't participate in this round. I will be back in approximately 9-10hrs from now.
Eddie, remember that the winner should post the complete translation of the text that you provide (for archiving purposes)
Eddie, remember that the winner should post the complete translation of the text that you provide (for archiving purposes)
Zev Brȹk First step is transliteration. This one looks fun...
Nokarda gunah dar in jahon kist, bigū?
V-on kas ki gunah nakarda, čun zist, bigū?
Man bad kunamu tu bad mukoftam dihi,
Pas farq miyeni manu tu čist, bigū?
Nokarda gunah dar in jahon kist, bigū?
V-on kas ki gunah nakarda, čun zist, bigū?
Man bad kunamu tu bad mukoftam dihi,
Pas farq miyeni manu tu čist, bigū?
Ed Blankenship The transliteration isn't bad, Zev ... it's not how I'd transliterate it but it's ok...
And Thatcher, I mean it's not a commonly learned language (~ 4-5 million speakers) but it's definitely not unheard of or impossible to find
And Thatcher, I mean it's not a commonly learned language (~ 4-5 million speakers) but it's definitely not unheard of or impossible to find
Ed Blankenship You're lucky... the language I wanted to do is MUCH more obscure and not commonly learn (less than 600,000 speakers)....
Not Uzbek... but your'e getting closer
Not Uzbek... but your'e getting closer
Ed Blankenship No... further away now...
I'll give you a hint... you're getting close geographically, but it's not Turkic
I'll give you a hint... you're getting close geographically, but it's not Turkic
Wrik Chatterjee You might have been evil and picked one of the Pamir languages, which would have been my next guess.
Thatcher Ó Donnabháin That was my second guess but I thought Tajik was written in Arabic script... It sounded Persian
Wrik Chatterjee Nah, it's written in Cyrillic. But Dari and Farsi are both written in Arabic, as is Pashto.
Ed Blankenship I wouldn't say that they're "written in Arabic". The Arabic script has 28 letters, Persian (Iranian and Dari) has 32, and Pashto has 44. They're just modified forms of the Arabic script... but that's not the point of this thread....
Thatcher Ó Donnabháin All I could find was that the first word had something to do with "inexperienced".
Ed Blankenship I don't know if I'd translate it as inexperienced... maybe in another context, but not in this one....
но - negative prefix (like a- in English)
карда - done, having done
So that's the right idea.....
но - negative prefix (like a- in English)
карда - done, having done
So that's the right idea.....
Ed Blankenship It will help with vocab... no so much with some of the verbal forms... but Wikipedia might be able to help with that...
Thatcher Ó Donnabháin That's where I was looking but its frustrating to do from a phone. I'll try when I can use the computer.
Ed Blankenship ok.... i'll be here... i'm just at home working on my thesis all day... we'll see if anyone comes along and can crack it...
Thatcher Ó Donnabháin Second sentence: And it/that person that sin na-done, like life/existance, okay?(???)
Zev Brȹk Really struggling here. I've been converting the Tajik to Standard Persian, but surprisingly the resources for Persian are less extensive than one might suppose. The third line especially makes little or no sense to me.
Zev Brȹk Here's my attempt so far:
Who has not committed a sin in this world, speak!
If there is a person who has not committed a sin, because he was alive, speak!
I do evil; you give my mukoft evil,
Therefore what is the distinction between me and you, speak!
Who has not committed a sin in this world, speak!
If there is a person who has not committed a sin, because he was alive, speak!
I do evil; you give my mukoft evil,
Therefore what is the distinction between me and you, speak!
Ed Blankenship You're in the right track Zev, but remember these are questions. I wrote it how it's been published but I would put the question mark before the last word in lines 1, 2, and 4
Zev Brȹk Eddie, just so you know, the host will generally copy the latest version and mark which parts are wrong by bracketing them, etc. Could you please do that with mine?
Ed Blankenship Who has not committed a sin in this world, [speak!]
[If there is a] person who has not committed a sin, [because he was alive, speak!]
I do evil; you give my [mukoft evil],
Therefore what is the distinction between me and you, [speak!]
(I'm also not sure if I'd say "distinction" but it's not wrong. Also, the "speak!" commands... they just sound strange, but again not completely incorrect)
[If there is a] person who has not committed a sin, [because he was alive, speak!]
I do evil; you give my [mukoft evil],
Therefore what is the distinction between me and you, [speak!]
(I'm also not sure if I'd say "distinction" but it's not wrong. Also, the "speak!" commands... they just sound strange, but again not completely incorrect)
Ed Blankenship Also, thanks for pointing out that rule... It's a good one (to know and for when you're playing)
Ed Blankenship I'm sorry! I just found a typo in the original (I'll edit it now).
in the 3rd line, the world should be "мукофот" and not "мукофт". I apologize for not seeing this earlier!
in the 3rd line, the world should be "мукофот" and not "мукофт". I apologize for not seeing this earlier!
Zev Brȹk Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
Is there a person who has not committed a sin, since he was born*? Speak!
I do evil; you give the reward for my evil,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
*Yes, I know this is not a direct translation, but it seems to be the most idiomatic way of saying "in all his life".
Is there a person who has not committed a sin, since he was born*? Speak!
I do evil; you give the reward for my evil,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
*Yes, I know this is not a direct translation, but it seems to be the most idiomatic way of saying "in all his life".
Ed Blankenship Is there a person who has not committed a sin, [since he was born]*? Speak!
I do evil; you give the reward [for my evil],
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
In the second line: see if you can find another meaning for the word "чун"
In the third line: look at the placement of "-ам" vs where you have it in your translation. Also remember that "бад" in Persian can be an adjective or an adverb.
I do evil; you give the reward [for my evil],
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
In the second line: see if you can find another meaning for the word "чун"
In the third line: look at the placement of "-ам" vs where you have it in your translation. Also remember that "бад" in Persian can be an adjective or an adverb.
Zev Brȹk I'm grasping at straws here, because I really can't figure out what the best translation is...
Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
Is there a person who has not committed a sin, like when he was born? Speak!
I act badly; you give the reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
Is there a person who has not committed a sin, like when he was born? Speak!
I act badly; you give the reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
Ed Blankenship You're really getting there though.
Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
[Is there a] person who has not committed a sin, like [when he was born]? Speak!
I act badly; you give [the] reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
Line 1 - Perfect (besides what I mentioned about the translation of "бигӯ" but Speak! is fine for now)
Line 2 - The "В" at the beginning is not an "if" ... I'll give it to you and tell you that it's an abbreviation of "ва" in order to keep meter.
Line 3 - мукофотАМ (your missing the "-ам" in your translation.
Line 4 - Perfect
Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
[Is there a] person who has not committed a sin, like [when he was born]? Speak!
I act badly; you give [the] reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
Line 1 - Perfect (besides what I mentioned about the translation of "бигӯ" but Speak! is fine for now)
Line 2 - The "В" at the beginning is not an "if" ... I'll give it to you and tell you that it's an abbreviation of "ва" in order to keep meter.
Line 3 - мукофотАМ (your missing the "-ам" in your translation.
Line 4 - Perfect
Zev Brȹk I still think it might be a tiny bit off.
Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
And that person who has not committed a sin, like when he was born? Speak!
I act badly; you give my reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
And that person who has not committed a sin, like when he was born? Speak!
I act badly; you give my reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
Ed Blankenship -am is multiple things Thatcher. It can be the 1st person singular in conjugation or the 1st person singular possessive suffix
Sarah Karoline Vincensiu Arief Eddie To avoid sending multiple posts, which would get in the way of the game, I shall send you a combined yet personal congratulations card!
Zev Brȹk Gah! Still don't get that tiny piece!
Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
And that person who has not committed a sin, like when he was living? Speak!
I act badly; you give my reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
And that person who has not committed a sin, like when he was living? Speak!
I act badly; you give my reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
Ed Blankenship Again almost there... we're down to just a few words... in that line...
- There is no "when" in that line
- So take out the "when" and then try to make it a question (you might have to put in a different question word)
- There is no "when" in that line
- So take out the "when" and then try to make it a question (you might have to put in a different question word)
Jake Kissinger Felicitaciones to all who have won since I have gotten on! There was a round it Thai? Cool!
Jake Kissinger Is what Zev had as "when" more of a "because?" "Who is the person who has not committed a sin in this world, because he was alive?"
Ed Blankenship No... "чун" as "because" is more of an abbreviation of "чунки" (which in itself is actually a combination of чун and ки). But чун on it's own does carry the meaning of "like" which is what Zev has put... but it's not a "like when" it's something else here as a question....
If you know Spanish, think of it like "¿Cómo es?" (vs ¿Cómo está?)
If you know Spanish, think of it like "¿Cómo es?" (vs ¿Cómo está?)
Ed Blankenship It can be construed as a "how" ... but look at the sentence, it's not asking about the person but about something else...
Zev Brȹk Who has not committed a sin in this world? Speak!
And that person who has not committed a sin, how did he live? Speak!
I act badly; you give my reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
And that person who has not committed a sin, how did he live? Speak!
I act badly; you give my reward badly,
Therefore what is the difference between me and you? Speak!
Ed Blankenship While it's not the most natural, nor the most beautiful (as Khayyam) would have wanted, this is correct! Congrats Zev!
Ed Blankenship Нокарда гунаҳ дар ин ҷаҳон кист, бигӯ?
В-он кас ки гунаҳ накарда, чун зист, бигӯ?
Ман бад кунаму ту бад мукофотам диҳи,
Пас фарқ миёни ману ту чист, бигӯ?
- Хайём
Tell me, who is there in this world who does not sin?
Tell me, what is the life of a person who doesn't sin like?
I do things wrong and you give my reward wrongly,
Therefore, tell me, what difference is there between you and me?
- Khayyam (Translation by John Hayward)
This is the best translation I've seen... but you're is just as accurate. Congrats!
В-он кас ки гунаҳ накарда, чун зист, бигӯ?
Ман бад кунаму ту бад мукофотам диҳи,
Пас фарқ миёни ману ту чист, бигӯ?
- Хайём
Tell me, who is there in this world who does not sin?
Tell me, what is the life of a person who doesn't sin like?
I do things wrong and you give my reward wrongly,
Therefore, tell me, what difference is there between you and me?
- Khayyam (Translation by John Hayward)
This is the best translation I've seen... but you're is just as accurate. Congrats!
Zev Brȹk How cruel of you to give me poetry by a master like Xayyām and let me butcher it thus! I will find something much more mundane for the next round.
Ed Blankenship Just be happy I didn't give you poetry from Khetagurov. Persian is easy compared to that!
Ed Blankenship The only reason I didn't was because I could find good English translations of Khetagurov and I don't even trust myself to translate him
Wrik Chatterjee Do you speak Russian? You could probably get translations into Russian and work with those.
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