Round 247 | Språkspelet

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Wrik Chatterjee Okay, Round 247, the same year B.C. that Hannibal was born. I would do my Northeast Caucasian round, but because of the turnout last round I've picked a much, much more widely spoken language than any Northeast Caucasian one. This is still Sprogspelet, so I've done what Andy did in Round 194 by putting it into IPA and taking away the word boundaries but keeping the sentence boundaries intact. Again, this is very widely spoken, so I've picked a few non-standard pronunciations. However, there are a few proper names here that I think can be identified fairly quickly.

[ləseɲœʁkχiʃnaʁegæʁd
saflytsəʒudynfasɔ̃mɛnasɑ̃t
kiatiʁləmɔʁpuəʁmwaɑ̃pχæ̃skauʁava
eʒəswipjetinesuleʁudəsɔ̃ʃæʁ]

Wrik Chatterjee Jake? Vincensiu? Dago? Zev? Nicolás? Helene? Justyna? Arief? Christian? Victor? Ed? Thatcher? Maria? Murilo? Anybody else I forgot or couldn't tag in the first place?

Ed Blankenship Does the 5 min rule still apply?

Wrik Chatterjee Yes. I guess you could co-moderate

Wrik Chatterjee And if progress gets slow, just give broader hints.

Jake Kissinger The second line sounds french as I try to read it aloud, perhaps because of the nasal consonants. œ, ʁ, ʒ, and y occur in French, too, but I can't think of where χ would.

Wrik Chatterjee What about the other lines? Think about the phonotactic restrictions on [χ].

Jake Kissinger It seems to only occur before vowels.

Jake Kissinger ʁ and χ are allophones of <g> in northern Dutch dialects, and ʒ and ʃ are the realizations of <zj> and <sj> in some Dutch dialects, but I don't think all of the vowels are Dutch.

Jake Kissinger Plus, Ed speaks it, so maybe Russian? I think the only reason I initially got the impression of Russian was that the ʁ reminded me of the Russian letter я.

Ed Blankenship No it's not Russian. What else do I speak jake?

Wrik Chatterjee While the vowel thing is true in this case, it isn't the right one . Check again

Jake Kissinger Well, I don't know all of the languages you speak, but I'm pretty sure you speak Armenian, and maybe Georgian, Arabic, French (which we've already established it wasn't)--oh, OK, here's the list! (on your FB page...). Is it by any chance a variety of Persian, and if not, is it in that branch of IE? I don't think it's German.

Jake Kissinger Are ʁ and χ allophones of a uvular fricative phoneme that assimilates to the voicing of consonants around it?

Wrik Chatterjee Yes and it is IE

Jake Kissinger But is it in that branch of IE?

Ed Blankenship No... I don't believe so...

Ed Blankenship I think you might want to go back to things you may have already considered.... Reconsider them...

Jake Kissinger Hmm... It doesn't look like ʁ and χ are allophones in Armenian, so probably not that.

Ed Blankenship There is a language that you already mentioned where they are allophones

Jake Kissinger HEY! There it is! It is French!

Wrik Chatterjee There we go! No find all the right word boundaries and translate

Brad Wilson The last line starts "et je suis ..."

Wrik Chatterjee Yes it does.

Brad Wilson I really can't read IPA ... this is hard

Ed Blankenship I'd offer to transcribe to proper French, but that's probably not fair. I do, however, have great confidence in Jake's ability to transcribe IPA

Brad Wilson well, yes ... I can't find the backward ɔ in the IPA table - is it a vowel?

Ed Blankenship Yes, it's a vowel

Ed Blankenship It's open... back (or mid-back) and rounded

Brad Wilson aah, there it is

Wrik Chatterjee Yup. It's the same as in General American "bought."

Brad Wilson my guess at last line breaks: e ʒə swi /pjetine/ su le ʁu də sɔ̃ ʃæʁ

Brad Wilson my guess at 1st line breaks: lə seɲœʁ /kχiʃ/ na ʁegæʁd

Ed Blankenship Your last line break is good....

Jake Kissinger That last line, then, could be "et je sui pietinez sou le roux de son chär," perhaps.

Jake Kissinger The first line definitely starts "le seignior," or however you spell the French word for "sir."

Ed Blankenship Brad: lə seɲœʁ {/kχiʃ/ na} ʁegæʁd
Jake: et je [sui] pi[e]tin[ez] sou[ ] l[e ] rou[x] de son ch[ä]r

Brad Wilson L4 =? et je suis pietiné sous le roue de son cher

Ed Blankenship Brad: et je suis pi[e]tiné sous le[ ] roue[ ] de son ch[e]r
Look at the IPA again...

Brad Wilson L4 = et je suis piétiné sous les roues de son char

Nicolás Straccia Oh, this Mr. Krishna...

or should it me Lord Krishna? : P

Nicolás Straccia "The Lord, Krishna, watch(IMP)" ?

nah, that looks weird

Brad Wilson Krishna? I thought it said Lord Quiche

Ed Blankenship It's definitely Lord Krishna

Brad Wilson L1 = le seigneur Krishna régards

Brad Wilson L2 =? sa flute se joue d'un façon menaçant

Wrik Chatterjee L1: Le seigneur Krishna régard(s)
L2: Sa fl(u)te se joue d'un() façon menaçant()

Jake Kissinger [ləseɲœʁkχiʃnaʁegæʁd
saflytsəʒudynfasɔ̃mɛnasɑ̃t
kiatiʁləmɔʁpuəʁmwaɑ̃pχæ̃skauʁava
eʒəswipjetinesuleʁudəsɔ̃ʃæʁ]

The first two & fourth lines are from Brad
"Le seigneur Krishna régards
Sa flute se joue d'un façon menaçant
Qui attire le mort puer (or "poire") moi en pr[æ]ns ca heure à vas
Et je suis piétiné sous les roues de son char."

I don't know how to make the [æ] sound. Neither "puer" nor "poire" line up exactly, nor does "heure," but you did say that you included some non-standard pronunciations.

Jake Kissinger "Le seigneur Krishna régard
Sa fluette se joue d'une façon menaçants
Qui attire le mort puer (or "poire") moi en pr[æ]ns ca heure à vas
Et je suis piétiné sous les roues de son char."

Ed Blankenship Jake:
Le seigneur Krishna r[é]gard[ ]
Sa fl[uett]e se joue d'une façon menaçant[s]
Qui attire le mort [puer (or "poire")] moi [e]n pr[[æ]]n[s] [ca heure à vas]
Et je suis piétiné sous les roues de son char."

Do you know any French?

Jake Kissinger Nope.

Ed Blankenship Ok... I was going to give tips regarding taking pronunciation and spelling things correctly... but you would need to know some French for that... But I'll try anyways
Lines 1 & 2 ("r[é]gard[ ]" and "menaçant[s]") - final consonants in French are generally (well, at least here) silent. They must have a vowel after them to be pronounced.
Line 3 - I'm not sure how to help you with the [puəʁ] word... if I come up with something, I'll let you know. As for [ɑ̃] = [e]n, see if you can find a site or article explaining French nasal vowels. Unfortunately, French nasals aren't just a nasalization but the vowel likes to shift... This will help (then again, [ɑ̃] is also a peculiarity of this dialect). As for [pχæ̃s] being pr[[æ]]n[s] ... again, look at French nasal vowel shifts. Also, consider what I just said about silent, final consonants. As for [kauʁava], I'll tell you this - think of Krishna... is it really french? Is it a proper name? What culture is this coming from... start Googling (that's what I had to do at first)...
Link 4 is perfect (despite this dialects pecultarities of <char> as [ʃæʁ]...)

Wrik Chatterjee I'm at a restaurant, so what he said is good. Remember the insanity of French orthography

Brad Wilson L2 = Sa [fluette] se joue d'une façon menaçante

Brad Wilson L3 = ... pour moi ...

Ed Blankenship Yes Brad... you're getting there

Jake Kissinger I'm guessing ʁegæʁd is "regarde," then.

Wrik Chatterjee Yup

Ed Blankenship yeah... i just notice that it's been transcibed here with an [e] which would render é .... IDK if that's an error or part of this dialect again

Wrik Chatterjee Whoops. You're right; I made a mistake.

Brad Wilson L3 = Qui attire le mort pour moi on prince Kaurava

Wrik Chatterjee It isn't "on."

Ed Blankenship Qui attire le mort pour moi [o]n prince Kaurava

Really we're just at the point of "What would make sense here and sounds kind of like this word?" ....

Jake Kissinger Omniglot says "an" can make that sound.

Wrik Chatterjee In this case it isn't that. What makes sense in this context?

Ed Blankenship I could give you what it is in standard french... but only if you're desperate... but really you could eventualyl guess it... there are only 5 vowels...

Wrik Chatterjee If you still don't get it, I'll give you standard French for this worrd

Brad Wilson is it au ? I don't get the nasal

Wrik Chatterjee Nope. I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Jake Kissinger As to which dialect it is, which might help us, I'm guessing this dialect isn't Quebecois, because "moi" would be pronounced like "mwe," "mwɛ," "ma," or "mɑ" (I think).

Brad Wilson it must be un prince Kaurava, but that seems an odd formation for a title

Wrik Chatterjee There it is

Wrik Chatterjee I also intentionally left out punctuation

Ed Blankenship it's actually not that odd, Kaurava was a line so to be "a Kaurava (or Kauravian) prince" is not a strange thing...

Brad Wilson I think we're still missing the [flyt] word

Ed Blankenship You probably have the right idea... you're just writing it wrong

Wrik Chatterjee Again, think of Krishna

Brad Wilson oh, duh ... flûte

Ed Blankenship yay!

Brad Wilson So this is what we have:
le seigneur Krishna regarde
sa flûte se joue d'une façon menaçante
qui attire le mort pour moi un prince Kaurava
et je suis piétiné sous les roues de son char

Wrik Chatterjee There it is, minus a bit of punctuation

Ed Blankenship Now on to translation!

Brad Wilson I'll bow out of this phase ... 5 sec rule and all

Ed Blankenship Oh I didn't know you knew French... I bowed out because I know French, but I can also read IPA... so I would've had it in the beginning

Brad Wilson I'm Canadian, did 14 years of French in school. I'm not completely fluent, but I read it very well.

Jake Kissinger "The Lord Krishna watches
He plays his flute in a menacing fashion
Which attracts death to me, a Kauravan prince
And I am trampled under the wheels of its chariot."

Wrik Chatterjee Little things here: First, remember that French requires articles in places English wouldn't. "Attract" isn't quite right, but I might just give it to you. Also, whose chariot is it?

Jake Kissinger "Lord Krishna watches.
He plays his flute in a menacing fashion
Which lures death to me, a Kauravan prince
And I am trampled under the wheels of his chariot."

Wrik Chatterjee ...And that's close enough. Good work, Jake!

Jake Kissinger Merci!

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