Round 88 | Språkspelet

Round
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Alfia Wallace A Riddle. Your mission: Translate, solve, name the language:
"I ài une sciatule di pieruntinis
dutis rossis, dutis finis,
dutis bielis e d'un colôr:
cui ch'al induvine al è un dotôr.

Alfia Wallace BONUS POINT: Give the answer to the riddle in the language of the riddle. (Prize - I will send you a postcard, if you like.)

Alfia Wallace Come on, people. Let's do this!

Arief Wibowo Looks like Latin at a glance

Alfia Wallace Yeah, well it ain't.

Alfia Wallace The language, Latin, that is.

Arief Wibowo (sorry, I just woke up

let me warm up my brain a bit)

Alfia Wallace Just playin' - I'm chompin' at the bit here.

Alfia Wallace I just got home from work.

Arief Wibowo une=one?

[I] [ài] one [sciatule] [di] [pieruntinis]
[dutis] [rossis], [dutis] [finis],
[dutis] [bielis] [e] [d'un] [colôr]:
[cui] [ch'al] [induvine] [al] [è] [un] [dotôr]

Alfia Wallace That could be one translation of une - not the most elegant in this case, but a possible one.

Arief Wibowo Okay, I will put them in brackets, which I will translate later after I get the context

In the mean time, I found a page titled "Vichipedie:Liste dai articui che dutis lis vichipedîs a varessin di vê" in Friulian, also known as Eastern Ladin...

In that case, let me guess these:
rossis=rose/red
finis=finish
colôr=color
cui=whom/what/which
un=a/an (I will write "a" below until proven otherwise)

[I] [ài] (one) [sciatule] [di] [pieruntinis]
[dutis] rose/red, [dutis] finish,
[dutis] [bielis] [e] [d'un] color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] [induvine] [al] [è] a [dotôr]

Arief Wibowo I got what you meant, un/une are both "a", just depending on noun gender (http://j.mp/1632Fbz)

I almost translated dotôr as daughter

[I] [ài] a [sciatule] [di] [pieruntinis]
[dutis] rose/red, [dutis] finish,
[dutis] [bielis] [e] [d'un] color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] [induvine] [al] [è] a [dotôr]

Alfia Wallace Wait a second - you're allowed to look stuff up on the internet?! In any case, yikes - yes, it's Friulian. You still need to translate it and solve though..

Arief Wibowo "I" is a masculine plural marker (http://j.mp/1632Fbz)

"biel" means beautiful, I wonder what does -is means..
"e" means and
(http://j.mp/1633p0f)

We are a [sciatule] [di] [pieruntinis]
[dutis] rose/red, [dutis] finish,
[dutis] beaufitul and [d'un] color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] [induvine] [al] [è] a [dotôr]

Arief Wibowo Actually, yes, Alfia Wallace, we are only not allowed to use Google Translate (canonical rule), but we won't try to search the full sentence into Google too.

Usually we would stick with Wikipedia, and grab as much grammar as possible

Alfia Wallace Lol - you have one word correct in line 2, 3 in line 3, and 2 in line 4.

Arief Wibowo I am guess the mistake in line 2 would be rossis.

We are a [sciatule] [di] [pieruntinis]
[dutis] [rossis], [dutis] finish,
[dutis] beaufitul and [d'un] color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] [induvine] [al] [è] a [dotôr]

Arief Wibowo "al" could be "the"

We are a [sciatule] [di] [pieruntinis]
[dutis] [rossis], [dutis] finish,
[dutis] beaufitul and [d'un] color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] [induvine] the [è] a [dotôr]

Arief Wibowo d'un could be contraction of dutis un
ch'al could be che al (though it doesn't make sense, cui and che most likely mean the same thing)

Christian James Meredith Rossis > red.
D'un = of a
Ch'al = ... Something to do with location?
And I reckon the last is "doctor".

Alfia Wallace Christian: Red is correct. D'un - maybe. (inverse problem as Arief's translation of 'une' above). Ch'al - NO. Doctor - yes, depending on what you mean by doctor.

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter sciena means "back" (part of your body) in Italian
ch'al could be che al which I guess must be "which is"
d'un.... I can't translate this into English, well it's just like d'un in French, de un... "of a" maybe in English
indovino = "guess" on Italian

Alfia Wallace Arief: Nope, nope, nope.

Alfia Wallace Vincensiu: The only thing correct is 'guess'. (Where is schiena?)

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I came back from work not long ago and suppose to be sleeping now :S
I have heard the word pericarditis more than a thousand time today and I can't even concentrate on the word pieruntinis coz my brain is full of "pericarditis"

Arief Wibowo Three nopes

Merging Christian James Meredith and Vincensiu Denis' guesses:
We are a [sciatule] [di] [pieruntinis]
[dutis] red, [dutis] [finis],
[dutis] beautiful and (of a) color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] [induvine] [al] [è] a doctor

Arief Wibowo Take a rest, doctor Vincensiu Denis

Alfia Wallace WE is not correct

Alfia Wallace Otherwise we're moving in the right direction.

Alfia Wallace Re-posting the new challenge here for anyone who's coming in cold.

A Riddle. Your mission: Translate, solve, name the language:

"I ài une sciatule di pieruntinis
dutis rossis, dutis finis,
dutis bielis e d'un colôr:
cui ch'al induvine al è un dotôr.

BONUS POINT: Give the answer to the riddle in the language of the riddle. (Prize - I will send you a postcard, if you like.)

Анатолий Сорэнсен Very tricky >:}

Alfia Wallace Ну, дай, Толя - if you know Russian and Albanian, surely you can help to figure this out.

Анатолий Сорэнсен Yet those aren't very closely related to a Romance language ;]

Alfia Wallace Scroll up to see what has been figured out already.

Arief Wibowo Could sciatule be scatula in Latin, meaning box?

(I generalize "box" because:
English uses scatula as "a flat rectangular box used in dispensing powders and pills"
German uses scatula (Schatulle) to mean casket)

Анатолий Сорэнсен I can already see "I am a [sciatule] of [pieruntinis]" I want to say pieruntinis is either a plural form of "pieruntine" or in the Genitive due to the {di}... but that is the slavic talking haha

Анатолий Сорэнсен is "d'un" black?

Анатолий Сорэнсен NO!

Alfia Wallace That's true, Анатолий. I guess I take it for granted. Arief Wibowo: DING DING DING! sciatule is indeed box! (d'un is NOT black though)

Анатолий Сорэнсен "bielis e d'un color" "bielis is of the color"

Анатолий Сорэнсен lol

Alfia Wallace Yeah, yo Slavic's tawking yo.

Анатолий Сорэнсен is [d'un] a contraction of "de un" ?

Alfia Wallace yes (contraction of de un or di un, in this case)

Arief Wibowo Yaaay!! So far we have:
I am a box of [pieruntinis]
[dutis] red, [dutis] [finis],
[dutis] beautiful is of the color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] [induvine] [al] [è] a doctor

Alfia Wallace bielis is of the color - no, try again

Анатолий Сорэнсен pieruntinis - utensils. ?

Alfia Wallace Arief: Lines 1 & 2- yes. Line 3, the only correct items are beautiful, of, color. Line 4 - Look up you're missing a correct answer in this line.

Alfia Wallace utensils - NOPE

Анатолий Сорэнсен hm...

Arief Wibowo So bielis is not beautiful? Hmmm

Alfia Wallace bielis IS beautiful

Arief Wibowo Umm, I don't understand your comment "bielis is of the color - no, try again"

Alfia Wallace I confirmed way above that bielis is indeed beautiful. "of the" is wrong

Alfia Wallace or a part of that is wrong

Alfia Wallace If you study all my comments you'll get it.

Alfia Wallace In this thread on this riddle, of course

Arief Wibowo Oh, I misread Анатолий Сорэнсен's comment ("bielis e d'un color" "bielis is of the color") as yours, my bad

Back to my last guess:
I am a box of [pieruntinis]
[dutis] red, [dutis] [finis],
[dutis] beautiful and [d'un] color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] [induvine] [al] [è] a doctor

Анатолий Сорэнсен "beautiful of a colour"

Alfia Wallace nope, Anatole

Arief Wibowo dutis = it is?

Alfia Wallace Beautiful, of, color are correct

Анатолий Сорэнсен in o.O?

Alfia Wallace nope

Анатолий Сорэнсен e - is?

Alfia Wallace no

Анатолий Сорэнсен haha nuts...

Alfia Wallace Compare how all the words look - especially those which are similar

Анатолий Сорэнсен Duh xD like the Spanish "y" - "and" right? for [e]?

Alfia Wallace DING DING DING! That is correct, Signore Sorensen!

Bagdat Yesbossinov bielis - could be beauties,related to "belle", just a wild guess!

Alfia Wallace Mmmm - could be, could be, بغدط!

Arief Wibowo d'un is short for de un, so "un" is "a" (as esstablished before)

I am a box of [pieruntinis]
[dutis] red, [dutis] [finis],
[dutis] beautiful [e] [de] a color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] [induvine] [al] [è] a doctor

Alfia Wallace Beauties is an acceptable translation of bielis, as is beautiful.

Alfia Wallace Анатолий - scroll up and take a shot at it.

Анатолий Сорэнсен Writing it out on paper lol, need more time...

Alfia Wallace Good idea.

Arief Wibowo Sorry, I forgot to include Denis' "guess"
I am a box of [pieruntinis]
[dutis] red, [dutis] [finis],
[dutis] beautiful [e] [de] a color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] guess [al] [è] a doctor

Alfia Wallace Re-posting: A Riddle. Your mission: Translate, solve, name the language:

"I ài une sciatule di pieruntinis
dutis rossis, dutis finis,
dutis bielis e d'un colôr:
cui ch'al induvine al è un dotôr.

BONUS POINT: Give the answer to the riddle in the language of the riddle. (Prize - I will send you a postcard, if you like.)

Alfia Wallace Arief Wibowo - That all looks good except for the 'a' in line 3.

Анатолий Сорэнсен [e] is "and", Arief Wibowo

Arief Wibowo I guessed that before, but Alfia Wallace said "Beautiful, of, color are correct" (so "and" isn't correct)

Alfia Wallace Sorry! 'And' is correct in line 3!

Arief Wibowo Okay

Reinserting "of" too:

I am a box of [pieruntinis]
[dutis] red, [dutis] [finis],
[dutis] beautiful and of [un] color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] guess [al] [è] a doctor

Alfia Wallace Looks good!

Анатолий Сорэнсен .... is the answer Dentist xD?

Arief Wibowo rossis = ross+is
bielis = biel+is
That leaves finis = fin+is
fin = end in Latin and few Romance languages

Анатолий Сорэнсен But this is a west latin language, so I'd say fin is closer to the more germanic "thin"

Arief Wibowo Анатолий Сорэнсен dentist in a box?

Alfia Wallace Nice observations. The fin here does not mean end though.

Bagdat Yesbossinov Looks like Romanian, or new Moldovan with Latin script.

Alfia Wallace lol - no, not dentist. hehehe

Arief Wibowo بغدط يسبلصن, the language has been confirmed as Friulian

Анатолий Сорэнсен al - at?

Alfia Wallace Nope, NOT Daco-Romance, I'm afraid. Arief already guessed the language.

Arief Wibowo Alfia Wallace, could it mean something similar... rear, behind, back, etc?

Alfia Wallace No, not similar. Look for other meanings of that root.

Alfia Wallace al is not at here.

Анатолий Сорэнсен is it "he" then?

Arief Wibowo boundary, limit, goal, purpose, death?

Arief Wibowo Or fin as in shark fin soup?

Анатолий Сорэнсен dutis finis - all are thin

Alfia Wallace Анатолий - 'he' would work. Arief - you need to get into a different semantic domain. It's nothing like any of those. Think English cognates.

Alfia Wallace Or types of sherry - lol

Arief Wibowo Thanks! finis = fine

Arief Wibowo (or refined)

Alfia Wallace Go with that semantic flow, Arief.

Arief Wibowo "thin" (Анатолий Сорэнсен) is in the same domain with fine, as well as: small, tiny, minute/minuscle, microscopic, soft

Alfia Wallace keep going, keep going..

Arief Wibowo I can't think of anything until we work out pieruntinis

Alfia Wallace DING DING DING!!!! Анатолий makes a HUGE leap with "all are.." (thin is not correct though, keep trying)

Alfia Wallace lol - no, you can make more progress.

Arief Wibowo More guesses for finis: pure, clean, expensive?

Arief Wibowo I just noticed that "thin" is what's given for "fin" in the same site I quoted before: http://j.mp/1633p0f

Alfia Wallace You were closer with fine, refined, soft - go in that direction. Fine itself would work, but there's a better translation.

Arief Wibowo Hmm.. Okay, I guess I will keep it as "fine" for now, and work our way to pieruntinis

In Indonesian, piranti means ware/utensils (as guessed by Анатолий Сорэнсен)... Is this far away from actual meaning?

(Indonesian:
piranti lunak = software
piranti keras = hardware)

Анатолий Сорэнсен That is why I guessed that lol

Alfia Wallace heheh - um, yes. It would be quite a stretch. Once you guys get a little farther along I'll give you a great clue to help you with pieruntinis

Анатолий Сорэнсен a box of something to do with hair?

Arief Wibowo Lets see what we've got so far:
I am a box of [pieruntinis]
all are red, all are (fine),
all are beautiful and of [un] color:
whom/what/which [ch'al] guess [al] [è] a (doctor)

Анатолий Сорэнсен I am a box of [pieruntinis]
all are red, all are {smooth},
all are beautiful and colourful:
-what that imagine/guess he is a doctor-

Alfia Wallace Getting closer. "And colorful" is not quite right. Try again on that phrase. (Although "and" and "of" and "color" are correct.) Cui is not what. Guess is correct.

Анатолий Сорэнсен cui is 'who' my bad.

Arief Wibowo I see...
all are beautiful and of one/single color?

Alfia Wallace YES YES YES!!!!! (both) - cui is who (it could be more elegantly translated but we'll go with that for now) and of one color is correct. DING DING DING DING!!!!

Arief Wibowo I finally understood what you meant by "inverse problem"

Arief Wibowo So far we've got:
I am a box of [pieruntinis]
all are red, all are (fine),
all are beautiful and of one color:
who [ch'al] guess [al] [è] a (doctor)

Анатолий Сорэнсен bottom line is "who that guess he is a doctor"

Bagdat Yesbossinov Pieruntinis - could be some flowers or plantation, vegetabels?

Alfia Wallace Yeah, now say it in a way that sounds like English, Анатолий.

Анатолий Сорэнсен who would guess that he is a doctor?

Bagdat Yesbossinov Pears?

Arief Wibowo Who that can guess it, he is a doctor
(I guess "doctor" would be honorific title like "Dr. Alfia", not medical doctor)

Alfia Wallace No, not anything living in the standard sense, يسبلصن

Alfia Wallace Correct, Arief, although the line still sounds stilted.

Arief Wibowo Whoever can guess it is a doctor?

Alfia Wallace I'll accept that.

Анатолий Сорэнсен Hint for the pieruntinis word now! I'm dying to know

Arief Wibowo Yay, all eyes to pieruntinis now!

I am a box of [pieruntinis]
all are red, all are (fine),
all are beautiful and of one color:
Whoever can guess it is a doctor

Bagdat Yesbossinov This rare flower, they, and fish and birds and insects they have so many names, that makes studying a language like studying another language....

Alfia Wallace Mmm.. yes.

Alfia Wallace Ok, clue is coming up

Bagdat Yesbossinov Really?

Alfia Wallace "Tu es Pierre, et sur cette pierre j'édifierai mon Eglise, contre laquelle la mort elle-même ne pourra rien."

Arief Wibowo (while waiting for the clue) could pieruntinis be a compound word? like pier-un-tin+is

Alfia Wallace not really - although it is a derived form

Alfia Wallace One could separate it into a few morphemes - say 3

Bagdat Yesbossinov I know pier - is stone! That's a first name of one of the apostles of Church.

Arief Wibowo I am a box of stone (jewellery)
all are red, all are (fine),
all are beautiful and of one color:
Whoever can guess it is a doctor

Bagdat Yesbossinov Stones, precious stones, yes!

Alfia Wallace Whoa, horsey! Baghdat is closer than Arief

Arief Wibowo If the translation above is correct, the riddle answer is ruby (http://rubyonrails.org/)

Bagdat Yesbossinov But no it's mainly you, Arief Wibowo, Анатолий Сорэнсен who did the bulk of the job ....

Alfia Wallace Lol. Nice try, but no cigar.

Arief Wibowo No cigar on translation or riddle answer?

Alfia Wallace Pieruntinis is not precious stones. Let's do this together. Pieru - stone. What do you think the rest of the morphemes mean?

Bagdat Yesbossinov Yes, there should be someone speaking that language - giving an answer in same language. But guess what, us taking part in this guess game is already a kind of reward, right?

Alfia Wallace No cigar on guess - and the translation is still a work in progress

Bagdat Yesbossinov Ntinis? from Zimbabwe?

Alfia Wallace lol. NO.

Bagdat Yesbossinov tiener = hold ? holding stones?

Arief Wibowo pieru-n-tin+is

Bagdat Yesbossinov so, stone and tinis, this is like rock'n'roll, or what?

Alfia Wallace pieru - ntini - s, I'm guessing

Alfia Wallace Refresh your browsers and look at my new profile image.

Arief Wibowo A ha! Tiny stones!

Bagdat Yesbossinov gravel on a beach, but this is too much help?

Alfia Wallace BINGO.

Arief Wibowo Also known in english as gravel

Arief Wibowo Yay!
I am a box of tiny stones
all are red, all are (fine),
all are beautiful and of one color:
Whoever can guess it is a doctor

Alfia Wallace I'm giving this to Arief Wibowo. Arief, you are the winner of this round, having both guessed the language (Friulian) and translated most of the riddle. Anyone want to try and solve it?

Arief Wibowo Thanks, Alfia Wallace, I am still trying to get the bonus round

Arief Wibowo One of the stone in your profile picture is red... But I don't have CSI equipments to analyze what's that

Alfia Wallace Remember some of the other acceptable translations of finis.

Alfia Wallace lol

Анатолий Сорэнсен I am a box of Marbles/Pebbles

Анатолий Сорэнсен all are red, all are smooth.

Анатолий Сорэнсен all are beautiful and of a single colour.

Анатолий Сорэнсен whomever can guess is a PhD!

Alfia Wallace Stick around, Анатолий - maybe next time. The winner gets the choose the next item for translation! But we still don't know the answer to this riddle.. hmmm... (Arief's translation is still the best.)

Alfia Wallace I like the PhD!

Arief Wibowo Thanks

I will start the round after we crown the PhD

Alfia Wallace So what is it? Tiny red, DELICATE stones all of one color, as in a box.

Alfia Wallace Beautiful, red, delicate little stones.

Bagdat Yesbossinov Kidney stones, liver stones, urinary glands?

Arief Wibowo Candy?

Alfia Wallace ROFLAMAO

Alfia Wallace Uh, no.

Alfia Wallace Arief - getting closer

Alfia Wallace I bet these grow in Kazakhstan, Baghdat.

Arief Wibowo The red part of FOX'S? http://j.mp/13NCLJ9

Arief Wibowo Wait... "grow"?

Bagdat Yesbossinov Yes, people die happily from these stones, !!!

Alfia Wallace Wow, those are some beautiful candies!

Bagdat Yesbossinov Marmalaide? jujube?

Bagdat Yesbossinov по-русски мармелад, а по-английски написано повидло! кошмар ...

Arief Wibowo Cornelian?

Alfia Wallace Анаргул?

Arief Wibowo Is the stone edible?

Alfia Wallace да

Alfia Wallace YES

Alfia Wallace the LITTLE "STONES"

Arief Wibowo Goji berries? http://j.mp/13NDtpG

Alfia Wallace sorry - on phone

Alfia Wallace lol. no.

Bagdat Yesbossinov It doesn't count, you gave us too many hints and help.

Alfia Wallace Well to you, yes

Alfia Wallace Let's let Arief figure it out

Arief Wibowo Oh, so the да was answer to Анаргул?

Bagdat Yesbossinov OK. I was just going to say "bye-bye"

Alfia Wallace What time is it there?

Arief Wibowo If that's so, I bar myself from guessing because that's the answer.

بغدط يسبلصن, hang around, next round is incoming

Bagdat Yesbossinov Actually, I am at full swing at work .... so will be on and off, until big boss takes on us ... big time ...

Alfia Wallace I hear you - that was me a few hours ago.

Arief Wibowo (lucky me, a freelancer who will enjoy 2 hours of CSI during lunch, in 10 minutes)

Arief Wibowo Hmm... Perhaps I will drink anar-juice during lunch

Alfia Wallace Ok, ok, so the REAL challenge was finding the word for the answer IN FRIULIAN.

Alfia Wallace >8^D

Arief Wibowo something-granata

Alfia Wallace very close!

Arief Wibowo Melagranata?

Arief Wibowo Melograno?

Bagdat Yesbossinov it is 9:40am here .... are you still in guessing mode??

Bagdat Yesbossinov This is very hard

Arief Wibowo PhD-worthy

(permanent hair damage)

Alfia Wallace HA !!!

Alfia Wallace It's 8:40 pm here

Arief Wibowo HA for melograno or 9:40am?

Btw, I am staying in UTC+8 timezone, just 2 hours ahead of بغدط يسبلصن

Alfia Wallace For Permanent hair Damage

Arief Wibowo I guess I am not PhD-worthy

I will think of a phrase while watching CSI, see you guys in about 2 hours!

Alfia Wallace Listen, that's close enough. I'm going to give it to you for mela granata because I have now searched 4 online Friulian dictionaries and none have pomegranate in them from Italian, English, or German. Standard Italian is melograno and in this Friulian textbook I have it says "miluz ingranât".

Alfia Wallace Arief Wibowo is the winner of this round! Hooray!

Arief Wibowo Next round incoming.....

Round
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