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Christian James Meredith OK, this is my poor attempt at a sentence in Ainu.
Be prepared for errors etc.
Also, it's gonna be romanised, coz I can't Katakanise it properly. Otherwise I'd go the whole Katakana + Kanji route.
Numan Oosutoraria moshir kor shushow cinumke wa tane nismuas.
Be prepared for errors etc.
Also, it's gonna be romanised, coz I can't Katakanise it properly. Otherwise I'd go the whole Katakana + Kanji route.
Numan Oosutoraria moshir kor shushow cinumke wa tane nismuas.
Christian James Meredith BTW, you might notice in that post I've given a hint when I lamented my inability to post the sentence in the script I wanted.
Christian James Meredith "Yesterday", "Australia", and "and" are definitely in there.
"leader", sorta. I reiterate that hint I gave in the first post of the round
"leader", sorta. I reiterate that hint I gave in the first post of the round
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I'm back.... after been away for weeks....
What I get is the hidden message from Christian's previous hint:
be prepare for ERRORS :p
What I get is the hidden message from Christian's previous hint:
be prepare for ERRORS :p
Christian James Meredith Kevin Long, how'd you get the last bit? (just curious, via dict or guess?? :D)
Kevin Long I guessed that if you talked about 'Yesterday' and were referring to the election, you'd probably say something about the aftermath 
Christian James Meredith Vincensiu Denis, no (this is related to my hint in the first post once again)
(this is related to my hint in the first post once again)Christian James Meredith Arief bro go for it! This round's just a couple words off completion! You can do it!
Arief Wibowo (I am, but it's because I am waiting for my dinner -- raining hard outside, pizza to the rescue -- I will attempt this first thing when I rise around 23 UTC later)
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Yeah dinner, I think I should get mine too, I wonder if I can find something at this hour :S
Christian James Meredith Vincensiu Denis, good work! Arief, look for my recent posts of an ainu dictionary here on omniglot
Arief Wibowo None of my Ainu dictionary has entry for shushow and cinumke, they could be neologism... Reading Australian election news now
Arief Wibowo I saw that ci means "we" (exclusive), but unfortunately I failed to properly determine meaning for numke, umke, mke, ke
Arief Wibowo Another dictionary (http://j.mp/14x5hV7) says ci means "penis, a male's private parts (explicitly possessed form ciye or ciyehe)", but I think it isn't relevant to Australian election... Or does it?
Arief Wibowo I can't infer the hint within your first post of this round, I guess it has something to do with the fact that you can't Katakanize it properly... Hmm
Arief Wibowo A ha! You said you must walk the Kanji path of solitude had you Katakanized it, and Wiki told me Ainu is only written in Katakana. Let me work on that hint 
Christian James Meredith You're looking for "numke". The talking dictionary I linked to here on Omniglot later has the word in it, you'll need to do a CTRL F search with the browser though.
Christian James Meredith held is not quite right. Just keep "kor" as "have/hold" for now.
General election is wrong too. "Select" here, in translation, should probably be better translated to a more neutral word that means the same basic things as "select" or "elect", and there is no "general" at all.
General election is wrong too. "Select" here, in translation, should probably be better translated to a more neutral word that means the same basic things as "select" or "elect", and there is no "general" at all.
Arief Wibowo Australialand, neighbor to Iceland and Swaziland
Neutral word for select/elect...
Yesterday, Australialand have/hold [shushow] choose and now bored
Neutral word for select/elect...
Yesterday, Australialand have/hold [shushow] choose and now bored
Christian James Meredith Sugee! Now, you just need to work on shushow (note: you figured out the hint, but there's anothing thing worth mentioning, and that's that Japanese and Ainu don't transliterate diphthongs the same way), and how "Australialand have (shushou) choose" works.
Then you can adjust the whole thing for tense ("Yesterday")
A hint for figuring out everything before shushow, and shushow itself - look at how Japanese agglutinates phrases onto each other (in dictionary form, not using -te or nominalisation).
Then you can adjust the whole thing for tense ("Yesterday")
A hint for figuring out everything before shushow, and shushow itself - look at how Japanese agglutinates phrases onto each other (in dictionary form, not using -te or nominalisation).
Arief Wibowo shui means "again", and the "i" will disappear (Wiki has the example of atsui "to be hot" → atsukatta "it was hot")
Considering it's merged with show, I guess it's re[show]
Considering it's merged with show, I guess it's re[show]
Christian James Meredith No, Arief Wibowo, you took my hint on agglutination the wrong way - everything *before* shushow follows the same style of agglutination that Japanese uses to form some equivalents of English clauses. E.g. Oosutoraria-moshir-kor-(shushow) acts as a single phrase.
Christian James Meredith (also, the -i doesn't disappear in atsukatta, it transforms. Technically that -i is -ki in Middle Japanese (and Old Japanese))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Middle_Japanese#Adjectives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Middle_Japanese#Adjectives
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Arief Wibowo I got a feeling that penis might b relevant in this context.
Arief Wibowo But Christian James Meredith confirmed that it's a person prefix, not parts-of-a-person prefix I presume
Christian James Meredith Not a parts-of-a-person prefix
Arief Wibowo, still stuck on shushow? Remember my hint about the script?
Arief Wibowo, still stuck on shushow? Remember my hint about the script?
Christian James Meredith Another hint on ci- - it's a usage that Indonesians are used to, but not English speakers (without fiddling around with extra words)
Arief Wibowo Indonesian has a lot of ci- prefix alright... Cibinong, Cianjur, Cimahi, Ciamis, Cirebon, etc...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Java#Administrative_divisions
(I know that's not what you meant )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Java#Administrative_divisions
(I know that's not what you meant
)Arief Wibowo I am yet to figure out the hint about shushow and Katakana+Kanji (I don't know how Japanese writing system works)
Arief Wibowo Few bits I found about them:
Katakana: used for foreign words and names, loanwords, onomatopoeia, scientific names, and sometimes to replace kanji or hiragana for emphasis.
Kanji: used to write most content words of native Japanese or (historically) Chinese origin, including:
* most nouns, such as 川 (kawa, "river") and 学校 (gakkō, "school")
* the stems of most verbs and adjectives, such as 見 in 見る (miru, "see") and 白 in 白い (shiroi, "white")
* most Japanese personal names and place names, such as 田中 (Tanaka) and 東京 (Tōkyō).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_writing_system
Katakana: used for foreign words and names, loanwords, onomatopoeia, scientific names, and sometimes to replace kanji or hiragana for emphasis.
Kanji: used to write most content words of native Japanese or (historically) Chinese origin, including:
* most nouns, such as 川 (kawa, "river") and 学校 (gakkō, "school")
* the stems of most verbs and adjectives, such as 見 in 見る (miru, "see") and 白 in 白い (shiroi, "white")
* most Japanese personal names and place names, such as 田中 (Tanaka) and 東京 (Tōkyō).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_writing_system
Arief Wibowo But Ainu doesn't use Kanji http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainu_language#Writing
I know this is supposed to be a big hint, but I can't quite place it
I know this is supposed to be a big hint, but I can't quite place it
Arief Wibowo Cinumke perhaps means candidate (the person being selected) or voter (the person doing selection)
Christian James Meredith Also, what does the election "choose" (on the surface, ignoring what you SHOULD be voting for in the election )? This is a hint for shushow. The hint about kanji is that Ainu does not use kanji. Ergo, if a word is actually a kanji word, then what language is that word from?
)? This is a hint for shushow. The hint about kanji is that Ainu does not use kanji. Ergo, if a word is actually a kanji word, then what language is that word from?Christian James Meredith Also, last hint for ci- - in addition to being like -o/-es/-e/-emos/-eis/-en in Spanish, it in particular forms part of a distinction that Indonesian has, but Spanish doesn't.
Arief Wibowo Christian James Meredith, about ci-, is it like -nya in Indonesian then?
E.g., bukunya (meaning his book)
E.g., bukunya (meaning his book)
Christian James Meredith Arief Wibowo Bukan. More like another distinction that Indonesian has. -nya sorta has an English analogue (it). Think K words...
Maria Weidner I get confused with the verbs "kor" and "cinumke", I guess I know what they mean, but there is only one objekt, but two verbs.. i don't get the right word order... :/
Maria Weidner as it is SOV, the "kor" confuses me... australia had what? I am quite sure I know what shushow means, but the "kor" confuses me extremely!
Arief Wibowo Christian James Meredith, did you mean -kan? E.g., Arief membersih-kan lantai?
Welcome to the game, Maria Weidner! Enjoy your stay with us
Welcome to the game, Maria Weidner! Enjoy your stay with us
Maria Weidner Ok, I'll write what I have without any semantic logic, just a word by word translation: Yesterday Australia land had prime Minister we(excl) choosed (and now we are bored)
Arief Wibowo A ha! That means what does election "choose" would be: a leader (Christian James Meredith's hint)
Maria Weidner But what about kor? what had Australia? I don't get it. kor doesn't belong to cinumke, as there is no "pasado compuesto" (how you say that in english again?)
Arief Wibowo Previously Christian James Meredith said:
held is not quite right. Just keep "kor" as "have/hold" for now.
held is not quite right. Just keep "kor" as "have/hold" for now.
Arief Wibowo If I understand Christian James Meredith's Indonesian hint correctly, cinumke would literally meant dipilihkan
Maria Weidner and the have no "tiempo compuesto", hwo you say that? compound past? compound tense? I have no idea... so, it can't be "had choosen"
Maria Weidner it would be like: Kemarin negara australia ada kami memilih perdana menteri... it just doesn't make sense
Arief Wibowo wa → "and", tane → "now", nismuas → "bored" are confirmed by Kevin Long's guess and dictionaries I found
(so literally: and now bored)
"we're" was added for extra kicks
(so literally: and now bored)
"we're" was added for extra kicks
Arief Wibowo This round is as difficult as Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström's last round, for similar reasons (lack of documentation )
)
Дайте Нефть Из Баку Since the thread has reached 1000 posts maybe it's time, for sanity's sake, to start a new one and call this round a draw.
Arief Wibowo Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström, the round is:
Numan Oosutoraria moshir kor shushow cinumke wa tane nismuas.
Numan Oosutoraria moshir kor shushow cinumke wa tane nismuas.
Maria Weidner Which word? I think we have all words now, but to get the right meaning or word order is hard. James should say something...
Arief Wibowo Maria Weidner: The possibly missing "in" that you said
Christian James Meredith, we need you
Christian James Meredith, we need you
Arief Wibowo Maria Weidner's latest guess: Yesterday we choosed prime minister (in?) Australia and now bored.. ?
Дайте Нефть Из Баку Yesterday in Australia we chosed [our] [new] prime minister and now we are already bored of him?
Дайте Нефть Из Баку The day before today, in the harsh lands of the southernmost continent, by appointment of Her Majesty Elizabeth Alexandra Mary of the House of Windsor, Second of Her name, Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories, our people have elected the new ruler of the Commonwealth of Australialalialalaland, but, alas, 'twas the wrong choice, and now death and decadence have fallen upon the country.
Arief Wibowo Christian James Meredith: I guess the problem will be resolved after the winner is crowned (crown a winner, get new thread)
Christian James Meredith The CJM translation by Dayte is correct. It was all a giant trick.
But seriously, allow me to say what you've all gotten right!
But seriously, allow me to say what you've all gotten right!
Christian James Meredith Now, shushow = prime minister, yes! That was the kanji hint. The hint was that Ainu doesn't have kanji, ergo it must be a Japanese word, ergo just use a Japanese IME to look up "shushou" and you should find PM
Arief Wibowo Christian James Meredith: memilih
Saya memilih baju (literally: I choose shirt, for myself)
Saya memilihkan baju (I choose shirt, for someone else)
usually it coms with "untuk ..." (for ...)
Saya memilih baju (literally: I choose shirt, for myself)
Saya memilihkan baju (I choose shirt, for someone else)
usually it coms with "untuk ..." (for ...)
Christian James Meredith The main trouble you're having here now is the whole Australialand have prime minister we choose.
This is where my hint (if it's still possible to find it somewhere) about Japanese word order is involved. Alas, seems like that might be a bit too hard a hint (although, it's very important to learn in Japanese and Ainu!)
Observe:
Kinou kyou tabeta keiki wo tsukutta.
Yesterday today eat cake (obj) made.
Can you guess the translation?
If not:
"Yesterday, the cake, *which* today was eaten, was made".
Here, a clause describing the noun just sits in front of the modified noun.
You can use this in all sorts of ways.
"Okureru kuruma" = the car that runs late. "Run-late-car" etc.
Terebi-wo miteiru kodomo = the child that's watching TV "TV-watching-child".
SO.... Oostoraria moshir kor shushow:
"Australialand-have-PM" = The PM that Australia has = Australia's PM.
This is where my hint (if it's still possible to find it somewhere) about Japanese word order is involved. Alas, seems like that might be a bit too hard a hint (although, it's very important to learn in Japanese and Ainu!)
Observe:
Kinou kyou tabeta keiki wo tsukutta.
Yesterday today eat cake (obj) made.
Can you guess the translation?
If not:
"Yesterday, the cake, *which* today was eaten, was made".
Here, a clause describing the noun just sits in front of the modified noun.
You can use this in all sorts of ways.
"Okureru kuruma" = the car that runs late. "Run-late-car" etc.
Terebi-wo miteiru kodomo = the child that's watching TV "TV-watching-child".
SO.... Oostoraria moshir kor shushow:
"Australialand-have-PM" = The PM that Australia has = Australia's PM.
Christian James Meredith Now you can figure out the first part of the translation easily! (I think...) Arief, Дайте, Victor, Vincensiu, Billy, Maria, etc.
Arief Wibowo A ha, I forgot to read up on word order...
Yesterday we(excl) elected Australia's Prime Minister, and now we are bored?
Yesterday we(excl) elected Australia's Prime Minister, and now we are bored?
Maria Weidner 
do I get extra points for my prime Minister? I figured this one out... and i figured cinumke out and kor.. yes, please?
do I get extra points for my prime Minister? I figured this one out... and i figured cinumke out and kor.. yes, please? Arief Wibowo Now I will think about a phrase, most likely I will post it in about 14 hours from now (after dinner and bed)
Arief Wibowo And to formally close the Språkspelet IV (Sprogspelet IV) thread, here are our top players (full list at http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/history/sprakspelers/?sort=win_count&desc=1)
Arief Wibowo I, on behalf of Te Rōpū* Språkspelet/Sprogspelet of 26 currently-active Språkspelers/Sprogspelers, welcome y'all to the 5th season of this great game!
Find out more about this game at http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/ or just ask us anytime
Special acknowledgement (and invitation to play) to Malin Elisabeth Nilsson The Progenitor, without whom this game wouldn't exist.
Remember (cf. Help page), this game's principle goals are for you to enjoy yourselves and learn something!
*) Hint for the incoming round
Find out more about this game at http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/ or just ask us anytime
Special acknowledgement (and invitation to play) to Malin Elisabeth Nilsson The Progenitor, without whom this game wouldn't exist.
Remember (cf. Help page), this game's principle goals are for you to enjoy yourselves and learn something!
*) Hint for the incoming round
Arief Wibowo Språkspelet V (or Sprogspelet V) → https://www.facebook.com/groups/omniglot/permalink/10151858651759666/
Arief Wibowo Språkspelers are recommended to bookmark http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/history/round/ ← this page always displays the current round.
Be forewarned, trying to seek the current round question from Facebook might cause serious eye hemorrhage and finger cramps!
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