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Christian James Meredith OK here goes nothing:
艱難にあって初めて真友を知る Kannan-ni atte hajimete shinyū-wo shiru.
艱難にあって初めて真友を知る Kannan-ni atte hajimete shinyū-wo shiru.
Christian James Meredith Note: there is one tiny bit I'm not sure how to translate thanks to the lack of Kanji and the many homophones of Japanese. Luckily it's not really important to the crux of the meaning.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter it's bedtime now,
wo-shiru sounds very familiar.
I think BoA's songs: Every Heart (the one from Inuyasha) has got wo-shiru in it
I'm going to bed, good luck everyone
wo-shiru sounds very familiar.
I think BoA's songs: Every Heart (the one from Inuyasha) has got wo-shiru in it
I'm going to bed, good luck everyone
Christian James Meredith BTW, I find it very hard to say "shiru". I've never really needed to use it without -te form before :-/
Arief Wibowo A ha, Billy James Brightraven's round 34!
"Omae wa mō shinde iru."
http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/history/round/?id=34
"Omae wa mō shinde iru."
http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/history/round/?id=34
Arief Wibowo I recognize 真 meaning genuine or halal
and 友 meaning friend
So I guess shinyū is either genuine/true friend or halal friend, or maybe the -wo changes the meaning totally
and 友 meaning friend
So I guess shinyū is either genuine/true friend or halal friend, or maybe the -wo changes the meaning totally
Arief Wibowo (I just fixed an issue in Live page where it beeps continuously when new round is started)
Christian James Meredith -wo is a grammatical particle. You almost *never* find wo in hiragana except in some cases where kanji has been omitted.
Dago Lesmes Suagua Not anymore Arief! But I'm of little use, tbh. For some reason, I don't like Japan... And hence, my knowledge of Japanese is VERY basic.
However, let me see what I can do. What do you have so far?
However, let me see what I can do. What do you have so far?
Arief Wibowo Welcome back, Dago Lesmes! 
Hmm... Hardships-[ni] [atte] first (true friend?)-[wo] [shiru]
Hmm... Hardships-[ni] [atte] first (true friend?)-[wo] [shiru]
Dago Lesmes Suagua Whoah... That's too hard for me. But thanks to my otaku friend... I'm tempted to say [shiru] has something to do with knowledge, like 'to know', or 'to realize'.
Arief Wibowo I can't find atte, but I found あっての in dictionary:
which can exist solely due to the presence of; whose existence is determined entirely by; which owes everything to
Probably unrelated
which can exist solely due to the presence of; whose existence is determined entirely by; which owes everything to
Probably unrelated
Christian James Meredith Aru = to be (inanimate) normally, but can also be used in possession (as can iru).. However, just as iru has a grammatical function (shiru > shitte + iru > shitteiru, so no, Arief 
), so too does aru have grammatical functions. I believe that's what it's role is here.
), so too does aru have grammatical functions. I believe that's what it's role is here.Arief Wibowo Wait, there's hidden "aru" in this sentence‽ :O
I am scared of Japanese shortforms, somewhat Cockney-like
I am scared of Japanese shortforms, somewhat Cockney-like
Christian James Meredith Arief Wibowo, if you take out a lot of atteno's definition there, I *guess* it's sorta helpful... The ideas of presence and past events are sorta useful.
Arief Wibowo A ha, I think I get it, but since I just hosted a round, I would let Dago Lesmes figure it out 
Dago, your sentence lacks few words to make it more specific (remember the hajimete=first/for the first time)
Dago, your sentence lacks few words to make it more specific (remember the hajimete=first/for the first time)
Dago Lesmes Suagua 1. Well, I should go to sleep now, so that's really not fair :p
2. On the other hand, yeah, I was just watching that.
3. And YES... It's too Cockney-like Christian. Those shortforms are going to kill me!
2. On the other hand, yeah, I was just watching that.
3. And YES... It's too Cockney-like Christian. Those shortforms are going to kill me!
Christian James Meredith (You can PM me Arief if you want and I can tell if you if you got it or not )
Technically, Dago Lesmes has already sorta won in the intended meaning, but it's less precise than I'd accept xD
)Technically, Dago Lesmes has already sorta won in the intended meaning, but it's less precise than I'd accept xD
Christian James Meredith To sum up what you know so far:
"Kannan-ni atte hajimete shinyuu wo shiru"
Hardship(-ni) (aru+te) "first/for the first time" true-friend(-wo) "know".
"Kannan-ni atte hajimete shinyuu wo shiru"
Hardship(-ni) (aru+te) "first/for the first time" true-friend(-wo) "know".
Dago Lesmes Suagua I just read this... <<"Ni" is typically used with verbs such as "iru (to exist)," "aru (to exist)" and "sumu (to live)." It translates into "at" or "in">>
In hardship, you know for the first time [wo] is a true-friend!
In hardship, you know for the first time [wo] is a true-friend!
Dago Lesmes Suagua I also read this.. <<"Wo" is used to mark the direct object of a verb>>.
My Japanese grammar knowledge is limited enough to know if 'aru' is the main verb, or if 'shiru' is the main verb.
How about...
[Hardship+in] [to+exist] [for the first time] [true+friend] [know].
My Japanese grammar knowledge is limited enough to know if 'aru' is the main verb, or if 'shiru' is the main verb.
How about...
[Hardship+in] [to+exist] [for the first time] [true+friend] [know].
Christian James Meredith Dago, aru doesn't take a direct object, because there is no direct object for existing. It's intransitive
Dago Lesmes Suagua Well, I'm just working with logic now. I'm too sleepy and too un-Japanese-speaker to try to know how grammar works :p
Christian James Meredith On the flipside, to translate this into grammatically fine English, you *will* have to complicate one thing: shiru is an active verb, where as the translation can only work passively
Christian James Meredith Ok, lemme help - reverse the entire order of the sentence:
know (direct object) true-friend for the first time (when) in hardship.
know (direct object) true-friend for the first time (when) in hardship.
Dago Lesmes Suagua "To know the true friend for the first time, it must be a hardship time."?
I kind of know what's this about now (and yeah, I wasn't so far away from the core meaning). But I don't know what to do with that 'when'....
I kind of know what's this about now (and yeah, I wasn't so far away from the core meaning). But I don't know what to do with that 'when'....
Christian James Meredith Here's another hint: Japanese drops pronouns like a can of mortein drops flies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortein)
Dago Lesmes Suagua I love that "Gambatte" word :D.
Christian James Meredith, I know I did. I just don't know how to translate what I want to say into English. (Yeap, my mind thinks in a weird personal conlang)
Christian James Meredith, I know I did. I just don't know how to translate what I want to say into English. (Yeap, my mind thinks in a weird personal conlang)
Dago Lesmes Suagua Yaaaaaaaaaaay!
There's no rule about using a posteriori conlangs, is there? I mean, since it's a posteriori, it's not impossible. It may be even more easy than posting a challenge in Kokama language.
There's no rule about using a posteriori conlangs, is there? I mean, since it's a posteriori, it's not impossible. It may be even more easy than posting a challenge in Kokama language.
Arief Wibowo We don't have rules against conlangs, in fact I posted an Alteran (fictional language from Stargate, based on Latin) before. But yeah, if it's derived from natural languages, it's okay
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