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Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson Budet kom på en kall vinternatt, Carolus finns ej mer (Hemåt fränder) Över fjäll, genom bitande köld går marschen de går med sänkta huvuden (Återvänder) Död, vänter Armfeldt och män Död, kungens män, vänder hemåt igen. Fränder, bröder, vår stormaktstid är över vårt rike blöder, fanan står i brand. Aldrig, aldrig, aldrig återvända svea; stormaktstid till ända
Christian James Meredith Looks like Victor and Billy are out this round too. On the flipside, look guys, it's your favourite language!
Arief Wibowo Thousand apologies, I accidentally pressed the red button 
Congratulations, Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson
Congratulations, Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson
Christian James Meredith "The message came on a cold winternight, Carolus are no more over mountain, [genom] biting cold goes [marschen] they go with the holy head [(Återvänder)] dead, Armfeldt waits and men dead, the king's men, wander home again [fränder], brothers, where storm[akts]time are over been rike blood, [fanan] stand in [brand aldrig, aldrig, aldrig återvända svea, stormaktstid to] end"
?
I'm not gonna look at a dictionary for this yet, I'll let other people have a go since it seems this time it's not as bad as Victor's "oh, sure, have a dictionary, not that it will help MWAHAHA" rounds.
?
I'm not gonna look at a dictionary for this yet, I'll let other people have a go since it seems this time it's not as bad as Victor's "oh, sure, have a dictionary, not that it will help MWAHAHA" rounds.
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson Rethink "sänkta huvuden"... Also, you kinda just skipped over the (Hemåt fränder) part
Anna Robbins Working off what CJM has, I'll add that I think "stormaktstid" should not be read as storm-akts-tid, but as stor-makts-tid.
genom = whole, entire
rike = royal
brand = eld? i.e., fire or flame?
aldrig = never
So:
"The message comes on a cold winternight, Carolus will be no more (Hemåt fränder) Over mountain, the whole biting [köld] goes [the marsch] they go with [the sacred head?] (Återvänder)
Death, Armfeldt and Dead men wait, the king's men turn to home again.
[Fränder], brothers, our time of great power is above our royal blood, [the devil?] stands in the fire/flame. Never, never, [återvända] [Svea, as in, the lady of Sweden?]; the time of great power until the end.
genom = whole, entire
rike = royal
brand = eld? i.e., fire or flame?
aldrig = never
So:
"The message comes on a cold winternight, Carolus will be no more (Hemåt fränder) Over mountain, the whole biting [köld] goes [the marsch] they go with [the sacred head?] (Återvänder)
Death, Armfeldt and Dead men wait, the king's men turn to home again.
[Fränder], brothers, our time of great power is above our royal blood, [the devil?] stands in the fire/flame. Never, never, [återvända] [Svea, as in, the lady of Sweden?]; the time of great power until the end.
Arief Wibowo Stjälcuri from Anna Robbins and Christian James Meredith:
The message comes on a cold winternight, Carolus will be no more (friend's home) Over mountain, the whole biting cold goes [the marsch] they go with [the sacred head?] (Return?)
Death, Armfeldt and Dead men wait, the king's men turn to home again.
(Friends?), brothers, our time of great power is above our royal blood, [the devil?] stands in the fire/flame. Never, never, never return [Svea, as in, the lady of Sweden?]; the time of great power until the end.
I failed to understand the relation those in brackets and the sentence that came before them :/
The message comes on a cold winternight, Carolus will be no more (friend's home) Over mountain, the whole biting cold goes [the marsch] they go with [the sacred head?] (Return?)
Death, Armfeldt and Dead men wait, the king's men turn to home again.
(Friends?), brothers, our time of great power is above our royal blood, [the devil?] stands in the fire/flame. Never, never, never return [Svea, as in, the lady of Sweden?]; the time of great power until the end.
I failed to understand the relation those in brackets and the sentence that came before them :/
Christian James Meredith Actually, the first hemåt fränder should be the same as the second (return home?).
Also, this reads like a song.
"Budet kom på en kall vinternatt, Carolus finns ej mer (Hemåt fränder) Över fjäll, genom bitande köld går marschen de går med sänkta huvuden (Återvänder) Död, vänter Armfeldt och män Död, kungens män, vänder hemåt igen. Fränder, bröder, vår stormaktstid är över vårt rike blöder, fanan står i brand. Aldrig, aldrig, aldrig återvända svea; stormaktstid till ända"
The message came on a cold winternight,
Carolus is (there*) no more (friends at home)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march(,)
they go with sunken* heads (Turn back)
Death, waits Armfeldt and men
Death, the king's men, turning home again.
Friends, brethren, our time of great power is over
our rike bleeds, the flag stands in fire.
Never, never, never turn back Svea;
Time of great power until the end.
Furthermore, I think I sorta get the context of this, I take it this is referring to some of the conflicts when Sweden had its union (is this around the 1600's? I vague remember from history classes that around that century Sweden basically took on most of Europe and managed to get through it sorta OKish thanks to the use of firearms, but that was about year 10 so 7 or so years ago.
*I say "is there" because I know at least that's what "finns" is meant to do, but in this context I take it it's more like "Carolus is there no more".
Also, is frände an old cognate to friend or a low german loan, or is it just me scrambling for *something* that works there?
*sunken = lowered I presume.
Also, this reads like a song.
"Budet kom på en kall vinternatt, Carolus finns ej mer (Hemåt fränder) Över fjäll, genom bitande köld går marschen de går med sänkta huvuden (Återvänder) Död, vänter Armfeldt och män Död, kungens män, vänder hemåt igen. Fränder, bröder, vår stormaktstid är över vårt rike blöder, fanan står i brand. Aldrig, aldrig, aldrig återvända svea; stormaktstid till ända"
The message came on a cold winternight,
Carolus is (there*) no more (friends at home)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march(,)
they go with sunken* heads (Turn back)
Death, waits Armfeldt and men
Death, the king's men, turning home again.
Friends, brethren, our time of great power is over
our rike bleeds, the flag stands in fire.
Never, never, never turn back Svea;
Time of great power until the end.
Furthermore, I think I sorta get the context of this, I take it this is referring to some of the conflicts when Sweden had its union (is this around the 1600's? I vague remember from history classes that around that century Sweden basically took on most of Europe and managed to get through it sorta OKish thanks to the use of firearms, but that was about year 10 so 7 or so years ago.
*I say "is there" because I know at least that's what "finns" is meant to do, but in this context I take it it's more like "Carolus is there no more".
Also, is frände an old cognate to friend or a low german loan, or is it just me scrambling for *something* that works there?
*sunken = lowered I presume.
Christian James Meredith And last note: I guess "stormaktstid" refers to a Great Power of the European sense, after rereading what I wrote there. But I don't get why they're not using the definite article at the end :-/
Sarah Karoline I can translate this too, so I shall sit this out...
I could give some advice on the translation, so far....
"stor makts tid" is the correct division of the word.
"aldrig" is "never".
"genom" is "through".
"Rike" has another meaning. It has cognates in other Gemanic languages.
"finns" is the literal meaning of "is there".
"frände" is Related to "friend" and can "mean friend", but I would translate it with a related word in this historical text.
"återvänder" "återvända" : what verb forms are these?
I could give some advice on the translation, so far....
"stor makts tid" is the correct division of the word.
"aldrig" is "never".
"genom" is "through".
"Rike" has another meaning. It has cognates in other Gemanic languages.
"finns" is the literal meaning of "is there".
"frände" is Related to "friend" and can "mean friend", but I would translate it with a related word in this historical text.
"återvänder" "återvända" : what verb forms are these?
Sarah Karoline Wikipedia has a good article
Perhaps it'd be better to say it's a "historically-based" text, rather than describing a specific event that happened. You don't need to know about historical events to translate it
Perhaps it'd be better to say it's a "historically-based" text, rather than describing a specific event that happened. You don't need to know about historical events to translate it
Sarah Karoline Incidentally I'm not usually in the position where I can give advice on translations, so I don't know if I'm being too vague or not giving enough information. If what I'm saying is too vague, tell me!
Now I have to exit for a few hours.
Now I have to exit for a few hours.
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson Rike doesn't quite mean royal, in fact it can even be used in relation to something that doesn't have king, even though it is closely related
Christian James Meredith Sarah Karoline ah no I thought you were talking to me since your post came after my second one lol.
Christian James Meredith My second attempt since it got lost in its own post (it was a big one):
The message came on a cold winternight,
Carolus is (there) no more (friends at home)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march(,)
they go with sunken (*lowered) heads (Turn back)
Death, waits Armfeldt and men
Death, the king's men, turning home again.
Friends, brethren, our time of great power is over
our rike bleeds, the flag stands in fire.
Never, never, never turn back Svea;
Time of great power until the end.
The message came on a cold winternight,
Carolus is (there) no more (friends at home)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march(,)
they go with sunken (*lowered) heads (Turn back)
Death, waits Armfeldt and men
Death, the king's men, turning home again.
Friends, brethren, our time of great power is over
our rike bleeds, the flag stands in fire.
Never, never, never turn back Svea;
Time of great power until the end.
Sarah Karoline Christian I thought you were talking to me, but I wasn't sure. My response was to Anna and you.
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson While "Is there no more" might be more literal, "Is no more" is more accurate, as it means he is dead
Christian James Meredith Mikkel ah awesome, I suspected he was dead (I kept "there" there to translate the verb more literally to its English equivalent)
Sarah Karoline Christian It's not a good sign if we're confused by our native language...!
I was trying to say "rike" is similar to a word in another
Germanic language...
I'll keep quiet, and let Mikkel the game master explain the rest
I was trying to say "rike" is similar to a word in another
Germanic language...
I'll keep quiet, and let Mikkel the game master explain the rest
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson Also, I'm not entirely sure, but I think even though "Stormaktstid" is literally "Time of great power", its primary connotation is not the time itself, but rather closely related to it
Christian James Meredith Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson for "tid" then do you mean like an era? Or a "moment"?
And I checked the dictionary and "hemåt" = to home, at home, towards home, = "home" (adverbial sense), so I'm a bit confused :-/
Version 3:
The message came on a cold winternight,
Carolus is no more (friends at home)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march(,)
they go with sunken* heads (Return)
Death, waits Armfeldt and men
Death, the king's men, turning home* again.
Friends, brethren, our era as a great power is over
our rike bleeds, the flag stands in fire.
Never, never, never turn back Svea;
Age of great power until the end.
*lowered, "sunken" used because it's a cognate with the same basic meaning.
*adverb sense.
And I checked the dictionary and "hemåt" = to home, at home, towards home, = "home" (adverbial sense), so I'm a bit confused :-/
Version 3:
The message came on a cold winternight,
Carolus is no more (friends at home)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march(,)
they go with sunken* heads (Return)
Death, waits Armfeldt and men
Death, the king's men, turning home* again.
Friends, brethren, our era as a great power is over
our rike bleeds, the flag stands in fire.
Never, never, never turn back Svea;
Age of great power until the end.
*lowered, "sunken" used because it's a cognate with the same basic meaning.
*adverb sense.
Christian James Meredith The message came on a cold winternight,
Carolus is no more (Homeward friends)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march(,)
they go with sunken heads (Return)
Death, waits Armfeldt and men
Death, the king's men, turning home* again.
Friends, brethren, our era as a great power is over
our rike bleeds, the flag stands in fire.
Never, never, never turn back Svea;
Age of great power until the end.
Carolus is no more (Homeward friends)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march(,)
they go with sunken heads (Return)
Death, waits Armfeldt and men
Death, the king's men, turning home* again.
Friends, brethren, our era as a great power is over
our rike bleeds, the flag stands in fire.
Never, never, never turn back Svea;
Age of great power until the end.
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson "Återvänder" in this case is not an instruction, so "Return" is in the wrong form, I'd say "awaits" makes more sense than "waits", but it's obvious what you meant, we still need "rike", and "Stormaktstid till ända" is not quite there
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson Ummm... oh. I never saw the word rike used in english, but I guess it works
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson But I do wish to state again that even though "Stormakstid" means "Time of great power", in this context it has a better translation
Sarah Karoline Ah-ha, now I realise my misunderstanding, Christian I didn't know we used "rike" either, sorry
Arief Wibowo Probably the last line is "dance till the end", and hence they started partying, some says they still do even until today :p
Arief Wibowo I will be back after 22 UTC. As usual, stjälcuri's welcome. After few times the Indo-side are being surpressed, this time is the Sve-side's turn.
Arief Wibowo Its a sveindo word that means to collaborate a.k.a build upon others work. Sveindo is our (constructed) language, made by fusioning words from, our 2 key languages, Sve and Indo. More info on the website 
Arief Wibowo Now listening to http://youtu.be/QRgEYSJ2Bns in hope of getting more ideas
Okay, now I know why those in brackets are seemingly non-related!
Okay, now I know why those in brackets are seemingly non-related!
Christian James Meredith Is there a direct English translation or will it take multiple words to translate?
Christian James Meredith That would be a hilarious time for a surprise invasion or declaration of independence.
Arief Wibowo WikiHow even have a guide: http://www.wikihow.com/Start-Your-Own-Country
We probably should start writing Sveindonesien declaration of independence, constitution, money, state seal (coat of arms?), and national anthem, and launch them next year
We've got the rest ready
We probably should start writing Sveindonesien declaration of independence, constitution, money, state seal (coat of arms?), and national anthem, and launch them next year
We've got the rest ready
Christian James Meredith One day, my child, one day *looks wisely into the distance*
(I'm holding off on fleshing out the Sveindo stuff for now, doing some conlanging/conworlding etc for a proper story idea I'd like to do)
(I'm holding off on fleshing out the Sveindo stuff for now, doing some conlanging/conworlding etc for a proper story idea I'd like to do)
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson Superpower is close, and imperialism is also close, but Stormakstid is something that happened once and only once
Arief Wibowo Hmm.. Did the sentence specifically refer to Swedish Empire then?
"Sweden emerged as a great European power under Axel Oxenstierna and King Gustavus Adolphus."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire
"Sweden emerged as a great European power under Axel Oxenstierna and King Gustavus Adolphus."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire
Arief Wibowo A ha! The title (Ruina Imperii) should have given me the clue
Here's revamped look 'n feel, to match common song lyrics:
The message came on a cold winternight
Carolus is no more
(Homeward, friends)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march
They go with sunken heads
(Return)
Death, awaits Armfeldt and (his) men
Death, king's men, turning homewards again
Friends, brethren, our Swedish Empire is over
Our kingdom bleeds, the flag stands in fire
Never, never, never turn back Svea
Swedish Empire forever! (till the end!)
Here's revamped look 'n feel, to match common song lyrics:
The message came on a cold winternight
Carolus is no more
(Homeward, friends)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march
They go with sunken heads
(Return)
Death, awaits Armfeldt and (his) men
Death, king's men, turning homewards again
Friends, brethren, our Swedish Empire is over
Our kingdom bleeds, the flag stands in fire
Never, never, never turn back Svea
Swedish Empire forever! (till the end!)
Arief Wibowo Reading more about Armfeldt shows me Caroleans, Carolean Death March, so probably this is what "Carolus is no more".
Perhaps it's better to render it as "Caroleans are no more"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_Armfeldt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroleans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolean_Death_March
Perhaps it's better to render it as "Caroleans are no more"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_Armfeldt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroleans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolean_Death_March
Arief Wibowo Hmm... Christian James Meredith, stjälcuri and kate yo! 
(I just hosted the previous round )
(I just hosted the previous round
)Arief Wibowo Old Japanese for "wins". I probably severely misused the word, which I stole from his round (http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/round/154/)
Arief Wibowo This one probably is just Old Japanese Sweindoska word usually come from Swedish or Indonesian, except our love for (Icelandic) skyr, so we took in that word
Sweindoska word usually come from Swedish or Indonesian, except our love for (Icelandic) skyr, so we took in that word Christian James Meredith Stjälcuri attempt:
The message came on a cold winternight
Carolus is no more
(Homeward, friends)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march
They go with sunken heads
(Returning)
Death, awaits Armfeldt and (his) men
Death, king's men, turning homewards again
Friends, brethren, our Swedish Empire is over
Our rike bleeds, the flag stands in the fire
Never, never, never turn back Svea,
Swedish Empire till the end.
The message came on a cold winternight
Carolus is no more
(Homeward, friends)
Over mountains, through biting cold goes the march
They go with sunken heads
(Returning)
Death, awaits Armfeldt and (his) men
Death, king's men, turning homewards again
Friends, brethren, our Swedish Empire is over
Our rike bleeds, the flag stands in the fire
Never, never, never turn back Svea,
Swedish Empire till the end.
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson Christian, I'll accept it. I'm actually not entirely sure of the last part, but since I can't think of a better translation, it'll have to do
Christian James Meredith Yay! Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson by all means if you do think of a better way of translating it, post it here so we can see where we went wrong or didn't hit the intended meaning! Now time for me to think of another round... I guess this'll have to be the Proto-Indo-European round then
Arief Wibowo CJM, yes! Probably we have difficult round of (South)East Asian languages near the end of this thread
Mikkel, yeah
Mikkel, yeah
Дайте Нефть Из Баку I'm having troubles finding the current round, what with Sweindonesian declarations of independence and all that.
Christian James Meredith I was thinking "oh I'll start a new thread" then realised that this was in fact a new thread.
Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson I believe the Danish/norweigen spelling was used for reasons related to ASCII
Arief Wibowo Thanks for noticing, but both works, Mikkel There's something called punycode -- not to be confused with puny god (Loki)
There's something called punycode -- not to be confused with puny god (Loki) Arief Wibowo Oops, programming error. I will fix them tomorrow morning. http://språkspelet.arwi.im/ (the main page) works though
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