Round 162 | Språkspelet

Round
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Anna Robbins All right, you guys ready for the next round?

#162, if I'm not wrong.

I don't have much confidence in the more complicated languages, but here's one that (hopefully) might give you a challenge. It shouldn't be hard to figure out which language it is, but we'll see how the translation goes.

Kõik rasked uned kaota,
et jääme ilma kahjuta.
Ja keela lihahimustust
ja kurja vaimu kiusatust.

Matteo Cheri Anna Estonian! Good!

Anna Robbins And I could have made it longer, but I was afraid I would have issues translating it, too. xD

Matteo Cheri We could make a "language bridge" from Finnish

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Luckily I have been listening to Urban Symphony, and with some research through Estonian Eurovision entry,and some dictionaries this is what I have gathered:

(Every/all) rasked uned (hidden),
(so) jääme ilma (damage).
(And) (forbids) lihahimustust
(And) (bad)(mind) kiusatust.

Now that I'm at home and in front of my lappie, things are much more easier to do

Sarah Karoline Thank You Anna Matteo ! The link on northvegr won't open when I download. The archive.org link worked! I also discovered I'd previously downloaded Zoega's dictionary, but it had installed elsewhere!

Anna Robbins First line: "all" is correct.
Second line: "so" can be acceptable

"damage" is close, but in the wrong form.
Third line: "and" is correct, "forbids" is the right verb, in the slightly wrong form
Fourth line: "and" is correct, "bad" is almost right, but needs to be more descriptive, "mind" is incorrect.

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Дайте Haven't seen you for ages??
Anna How about "hidden" in line 1?
I was just guessing it from "Skorpion" by Urban symphony,
but the word they used is "kaotab"

Anna Robbins Whoops, sorry. "Hidden" is not right, either.

Anna Robbins Actually, now that I think about it, I'll say you're on the right track, in a sort of vague sense. "kaotab" seems to be a different form, and I suppose the verb is somewhat interchangeable. It's not wrong, but it's a bit off in this sense.

Sarah Karoline Anna IF Vincensiu hasn't finished the exercise by morning I will have a go at translating

I've had a large translation for work this evening, so I haven't had time to learn some Estonian!

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Im going to bed soon. Arief & CJM will sort it out. Anyway I don't want to win. I'm not ready to create new round. BTW Sarah, it has been few centuries since you last won. :p

Anna Robbins All right, guys, take your time! Estonian can wait on your schedules

And I have to do some work in a bit, so I may disappear. But don't worry, I'll be back at some point to check on the progress!

Arief Wibowo Mikkel Ramzuiv Pittmann Wilson, bany sounds nice! And I think Sve and Indo almost agrees on round: runda/ronde....
Bany runde?

Christian James Meredith Ronda?

Arief Wibowo Boleh, but ronda has a meaning in Indonesian: to patrol

Nicolás Straccia (from Spanish, "hacer la ronda" -> to walk patrol rounds)

Arief Wibowo Btw, I saw
rasked ajad = hard times
http://kiisu.eki.ee/cgi-bin/ei.pl?uusi=rasked

Which brings me to:
All hard [uned] [kaota],
(So) [jääme] (deprive?) (damage?).
And (forbids?) [lihahimustust]
And (bad?) [vaimu] [kiusatust].

Arief Wibowo Nicolás Straccia, vote for our new Sveindo word meaning "new round": bany runde or bany ronda?

Nicolás Straccia From your source, also ilma=empty of

Nicolás Straccia So:
(All) rasked uned (~hidden),
(so) jääme (empty of) (damage).
(And) (~forbids) lihahimustust
(And) (~bad) (mind) kiusatust.

Nicolás Straccia maybe raske=hard, and the -d is a correspondence in case with une-d (http://kiisu.eki.ee/cgi-bin/ei.pl)

(All) (hard)-d une-d (~hidden),
(so) jääme (empty of) (damage).
(And) (~forbids) lihahimustust
(And) (~bad) (mind) kiusatust.

Arief Wibowo Lõuna-Jäämeri means Antarctic Ocean, so Jäämeri should mean ocean... Hmmm

Arief Wibowo Unemati means sandman... Une=sand?
All hard sands [kaota]?

(btw, Nicolás Straccia, only "all" was correct from Vincensiu Dionisiu's guess; kaota != hidden)

Nicolás Straccia This says jääme=remain (http://kiisu.eki.ee/cgi-bin/ei.pl)

Nicolás Straccia 1 (All) (hard)-d une-d (~hidden),
2 (so) (to.remain) (empty of) (damage).
3 (And) (~forbids) lihahimustust
4 (And) (~bad) (mind) kiusatust.

2 And remains undamaged/And remains safe

Nicolás Straccia Maybe "bany ronda" ^^

Arief Wibowo I am soooooo tempted to translate une as one

Nicolás Straccia une is related to sleep, so the une in Une-Mati shouldn't have much to do wit hsand ^^ http://kiisu.eki.ee/cgi-bin/ei.pl

Nicolás Straccia (somehow the links to the searches don't really work : /)

Nicolás Straccia The dictionary says "et" is not "so", but "so as to"

1 (All) (hard)-d une-d (~hidden),
2 (so.as.to) (to.remain) (empty.of) (damage).
3 (And) (~forbids) lihahimustust
4 (And) (~bad) (mind) kiusatust.

2 so as to remain undamaged/So as to remain safe

Arief Wibowo Nicolás Straccia, because when you search, the parameters are passed behind-the-scene with POST, what you copied is the GET command

Nicolás Straccia Tricksy websitsess!

Arief Wibowo 2. So as to remain safe?

Nicolás Straccia That was my proposal, yes : )

Arief Wibowo I afraid it's as tricky as Estonain words

Edmund Yong Matteo Cheri can you explain the last sentence?
I still dont understand 'advised to feel around'

Nicolás Straccia Hm, but now I find out, "et" can also mean "that"...
And "lihahimu" seems to be "desires/lusts of the flesh", "carnal desire", from "liha-"="fleshly" and "himu"="lust/desire"
"kiusatus" is "temptation"

1 Kõik rasked uned kaota,
2 et jääme ilma kahjuta.
3 Ja keela lihahimustust
4 ja kurja vaimu kiusatust.

1 (All) (hard)-d une-d (~hidden),
2 (so.as.to/that) (to.remain) (empty.of) (damage).
3 (And) (~forbids) (carnal.desire)-s-tust
4 (And) (~bad) (mind) (temptation)-t.

1 All
2 So as to remain safe/That remains safe
3 And put away our lust (?)
4 And temptation (?)

Is this the ending to the "Our father"??????

Arief Wibowo I guess not, considering this is Estonian Our Father (according to Wikipedia):
Meie Isa, kes Sa oled taevas!
Pühitsetud olgu Sinu nimi. Sinu riik tulgu.
Sinu tahtmine sündigu nagu taevas, nõnda ka maa peal.
Meie igapäevast leiba anna meile tänapäev.
Ja anna meile andeks meie võlad, nagu meiegi andeks anname oma võlglastele.
Ja ära saada meid kiusatusse, vaid päästa meid ära kurjast.
Sest Sinu päralt on riik ja vägi ja au igavesti.
Aamen.

But similar structure though, with 'Ja' and 'Ja' near the end

Nicolás Straccia Yeah, that looks definitely different to our text ^^

Arief Wibowo But considering unemati could mean sandman and sleepman, there's a possibility that our text is another version of our father

Nicolás Straccia Considering the "une-"="hypno-" bit, it would make for this:

1 Kõik rasked uned kaota,
2 et jääme ilma kahjuta.
3 Ja keela lihahimustust
4 ja kurja vaimu kiusatust.

1 (All) (hard)-d (hypno)-d (~hidden),
2 (so.as.to/that) (to.remain) (empty.of) (damage).
3 (And) (~forbids) (carnal.desire)-s-tust
4 (And) (~bad) (mind) (temptation)-t.

1 All
2 So as to remain safe/That remains safe
3 And put away our lust (?)
4 And temptation (?)

We could use some feedback from you, Anna ^^

Arief Wibowo Wait, Anna Robbins is preparing for her exam, let's not disturb her for a while

However, we can bring in our Estonian masters whom we haven't seen for a while: Billy James Brightraven and Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström

Nicolás Straccia Oh, I missed that about the exam, or then forgot about it! Sorry

Yes, may the masters come! ^^

Nicolás Straccia We're stuck at some few words and endings. I should look for an Estonian grammar, but I think I also should sleep... I'll have to look for it tomorrow, if the round is still rolling ^^

Arief Wibowo Head ööd, Nicolás Straccia

Anna Robbins All right, my time to respond to everyone! Hold on for a few more minutes (or the whole night, if you've gone to sleep), so I can address all attempts.

Arief Wibowo I guess Språkspelers in Central time camp is fast asleep by now

Good luck on your exam btw, Anna Robbins, what's the subject(s)?

Anna Robbins 1 "Hard" is pretty close to the meaning of "rasked", and "rasked" does modify "uned", so that is correct. But once you get the meaning of "uned", then you might find a better way to phrase the whole thing, rather than "hard".
Arief, you are correct when you relate "une" to "sandman", but in a more general sense, and not so specific. As Nicolás mentioned, it has something to do with "hypno-", and think of what goes along with that theme.

2 "et" is correct so far, it can mean "so", "that", "so that" or something along those lines.
"jääme" is "remain", although not in the infinitive. Hint: look at the suffix!
You've loosely translated this line, so if you can put it together into an idea, you should be able to get it. Think about how it will make sense together.

3 This line is almost fully translated, and can be finished with a bit of adjustment. "Carnal desire" is correct, and on that note, this is text from a traditional Estonian religious song because I felt like I should post something relating to some sort of holiday in December

So, it is very similar to the "Our Father" prayer! I can post a link to the song whenever you'd like; there is only one place on the internet where the lyrics can be found along with a translation, and I highly doubt you would be able to find it

Took me a few hours today, and I've been searching for the lyrics for a few months now.

4 "Temptation" is the right idea, but "mind" is not the right word. It's something marginally related, but not quite the same thing.

Anna Robbins And I've finished both exams for the day, I don't have another until my finals in two weeks

The subjects were engineering statistics and C-programming today. Sorry for the wait!

Arief Wibowo Sorry I've been away for a major work.

I found that vaim=spirit/soul/ghost (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vaim)

And therefore:
All hard [uned*] [kaota],
so that (remain?) (deprive?) (damage?).
And [keela] lust
and evil spirit/ghost (temptation).

* une- = hypno-, related to sand somehow

I can't connect sand and sleep, except that sandman (a character from Spider-Man) most probably sleeps

On totally unrelated note: (y) for learning C, the programming equivalent of Proto-Indo-European

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter 1. All hard thinking (kaota)
2. So the remaining undamaged
3. And forbidden desire
4. And evil temptation.

Nicolás Straccia Sandman in this context actually reffers to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandman Thus, une- being hypno-, we don't need here any sand whatsoever ^^

Anna Robbins Tere! I see you're making progress

Arief is correct about "evil spirit". Vincensiu, "hard thinking" is getting a bit off track. "undamaged" is close, but there's a better word for that.
Nicolás is correct about there being no need for sand

and actually, "une" can be either of two words in English, both closely related, but one makes more sense in this context.

Nicolás Straccia unharmed?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Geez I thought so! I almosy posted that b4 but my galaxy crashed... "sandman" reminded me to a cartoon movie I watch on Emirates about Santa, tooth fairy, easter bunny and sand man who has got troubles in gaining trust from kids so they need help from a snow boy...

Nicolás Straccia So:
1 Kõik rasked uned kaota,
2 et jääme ilma kahjuta.
3 Ja keela lihahimustust
4 ja kurja vaimu kiusatust.

1 (All) (hard)-d (hypno)-d (~lose/abolish/defeat),
2 (so.as.to/that) (to.remain) (empty.of) (damage).
3 (And) (~forbid/inhibit/prohibit) (carnal.desire)-s-tust
4 (And) (~bad) (mind) (temptation)-t.

1 Keep away (of) all nightmares
2 So as to remain unharmed
3 And put away our carnal desire (?)
4 And the temptation of the evil spirit(s) (?)

EDITED

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Line 2: So it remains damage free?

Anna Robbins 1 Good so far, you've the general idea somewhere in there. But don't forget the "hypno" part.

2 Also getting closer, and "unharmed" is the best word.

you're missing the subject of the verb, though. It wouldn't be "so as to" once you incorporate the subject.
3 "carnal desire" or "lust" works, although the first sounds more poetic, as you had it before.

4 Think about the case agreement, and how that affects the evil spirit and the temptation in relation to each other, and to other words in there. That's my hint for the line.

Nicolás Straccia Edited! (a few bits)

(~hard)(hypno-) -> nightmare?

Anna Robbins No, not nightmare, but that sort of general category a nightmare could be part of. If that makes any sense... It's something that isn't necessarily a nightmare, but similar to a nightmare in perhaps a difference sense than you'd think.

Arief Wibowo Hallucinations?
Or to be even more generic: illusions?

Arief Wibowo I just rechecked one of the dictionaries I used, "une-" prefix can also mean "oneiro-", Greek for "dream"
http://kiisu.eki.ee/cgi-bin/ei.pl?uusi=une

But I have no idea what's "hard dream" supposed to mean... A dream of endless hard rock bands concerting?

Nicolás Straccia Aren't oneiro- and hypno- pretty much synonims?

Arief Wibowo I guess hypno- is prefix for sleep-related stuffs, oneiro- is for dream-related stuffs (more specific than hypno/sleep).

Btw, this is a new vocabulary for me

Nicolás Straccia Oh, yeah, one should make that distinction. You're right.

Arief Wibowo I wonder where's our Estonian masters...

Anna Robbins Good, you're on the right track, Arief!

Arief Wibowo 1 Keep away (of) all bad dreams
2 So [jääme] remain unharmed
3 And put away our carnal desire
4 And the temptation of the evil spirit(s)

jäämeri means ocean.... But if there's no bad dream, what's unharmed is probably our mental health.

On unrelated note, I had a bad dream last night, probably a clue to solve this round

Time for my driving mock test, be back after about 6 hours

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I thought we already agree that [jääme] = {remain/s/ed/der/ing}

Arief, I am still awake....
I do feel sleepy, but the temptation is so high :S
So many fun things to do..... :S

Nicolás Straccia I had also though we had

Arief Wibowo And now I am thoroughly confused :/

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter why confused?
FYI: The sleepiness and temptation that I mentioned is irrelevant to this round though :p

Arief Wibowo Confused about the missing subject in line 2... :/

Arief Wibowo Or maybe the subject is kinda implied from the 1st sentence?

Anna Robbins Vincensiu is right about jääme, Arief

and you have now translated the last line, more or less (the preposition can be a bit interchangeable, and in this context, I'm giving you the points anyway).

Anna Robbins The first line still needs work. The third line is very close, but "put away" could be better worded, based on the second line's translation.

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter No movements for 24 hours, wow!
Is this the end of sprogspelet

Or is everyone (like me) too afraid to be the winner and hence have to find a new phrase

Arief Wibowo I overheated myself by driving without air conditioner under noon sun, and spent the rest of yesterday resting...

I will (try to) stjälcuri as soon as I figure out the two clues ↑↑

Billy James Brightraven Attempt at stjälcuri:

“Keep away all bad dreams
So our weather remains sound
And take away our carnal desire
And wretched spirits' temptation ”

Billy James Brightraven Haha, I'm a fool!

jääme is of course 1PL of jääma, which means that jääme = "we remain".

Amended translation attempt:

“Keep away all bad dreams,
So we remain without harm,
And take away our carnal desire,
And wretched spirits' temptation. ”

I was thinking ilma might be a declined form of ilm (weather) but it makes more sense for it to be the preposition 'ilma' (without).

Thanks, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_grammar#Verbs !

Anna Robbins All right, now there is a major amount of progress from Billy James Brightraven!

The only line that is a bit iffy, is the third. The part that says "take away" could probably use a different verb. It's along the right track, and I believe someone found the correct verb before, but it's got a slightly different connotation.

Billy James Brightraven Hmm, I looked up keela,

keelata; to forbid

(sa) keela; Forbid! [imperative]

so, third guess:

“Keep away all bad dreams,
So we remain without harm,
And forbid our carnal desire,
And wretched spirits' temptation.”

Arief Wibowo I think we said keela=forbids before... My attempt to stjälcuri:
Keep away all bad dreams,
So we remain without harm,
And prevent our carnal desire,
And wretched spirits' temptation.

Anna Robbins "Forbid" is correct!
And sorry, overlooked one last detail. In the first line, where it says "bad dreams"... It may not be in the sense that you meant, so try to find a replacement for "bad". Also, I think "evil" was better than "wretched" in this translation, but I'd give the point for either.

Billy James Brightraven hmm, well it's either that or heavy~difficult so, let's try with heavy

“Keep away all heavy dreams,
So that we remain without harm,
And forbid our carnal desire,
And wretched spirits' temptation."

Arief Wibowo "A nightmare is an unpleasant dream" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare)

Keep away all unpleasant dreams?

Anna Robbins Billy James Brightraven, that is the correct translation!
Arief Wibowo, that was very close.

What was meant by "bad" or "heavy" was more figurative than literal. That's why I said that something like "heavy" would be more fitting than "bad"

Also, here is the link to the full song, in case anyone wants to hear how it sounds! It's a traditional Estonian religious song called "Oh Kristus Valgus Oled Sa", which translates to, "Oh Christ You Are The Light".

There are only three versions on YouTube, so I'll post one of the full versions here (the other is a cappella, and the third only has something like half the song).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H26xJX2WWds

Billy James Brightraven That's an awesome song!

Arief Wibowo I just realized that this is your first round ever. Congratulations, Anna Robbins

Anna Robbins I'm glad I didn't pick anything too easy

I wanted to at least come up with something of moderate difficulty, and I was debating between Finnish and Estonian. I have much less of a knowledge of Estonian than of Finnish, and it took me forever and a day to find the translation for this song that I could work off, but it was fun!

Arief Wibowo Nice song, and of course, congratulations, Billy James Brightraven

-- Sorry I haven't finished making my congratulations card, so you'll have to make do with Sarah Karoline's

Anna Robbins What sort of congratulations card would we use for a round in a language that really doesn't fall under such a large category?

Anna Robbins How's this?

Billy James Brightraven

Arief Wibowo And the interesting thing is, your round's rating is 300 less from Matteo Cheri's Thor round, and therefore you aren't a Viktator.

Hmm.... I am thinking a certificate-style card with Sveindo flag

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