Round 179 | Språkspelet

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Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Since multilingual round seems to be the trend nowadays, let me bring one for you people to enjoy

Round 179:

Djangan mandi (di)kali Persapen
Kali Persapen banjak lintahnja;
Djangan kawin noni Persapen,
Noni Persapen banjak tingkahnja

Ajoen ajoen ajoen in die hoge klapperboom,
ajoen ajoen Mas Mira,
Djangan main gila.

Djangan mandi (di)kali Semarang,
Kali Semarang banjak oedangnja;
Djangan kawin noni Semarang,
Noni Semarang banjak oetangnja

Sarah Karoline This is multilingual? Oh!

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter yup and I took that from a song, a song that I have never heard until today :p
Was a very unique song

I will post the song later, and WARNING:
DO NOT GOOGLE THE WHOLE PHRASE as it might spoil the round straight away!!

Sarah Karoline Now I can see the Spanish and Estonian words - yay! I promise not to Google the phrase!

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I can't post the song now as the description column in youtube contains part of the lyrics and the translation. I will post the youtube link once that part has been translated.

Maria Weidner I only see Indonesian?!

Eugene Carmelo Cabanilla-Pedro Isn't it Bahasa Indonesia?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Eugene Sort of

Maria baca sekali lagi

Eugene Carmelo Cabanilla-Pedro It's written in the old orthography, right?

Here's my guess on some words. If my memory is correct, jangan is don't. And utang is a cognate in many Philippine languages, and it means debt. Utangnya, is this his/her debt?

Adrian Baxt-Dent Oh I so want to join in. But BI is one of my languages... so I might not.

Maria Weidner Klapperboom looks dutch, but Spanish and Estonian?

Adrian Baxt-Dent So why is there Estonian in an Indonesian song? I know the Spaniards and the Dutch colonised the area: did the Estonians also?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Eugene you got it

Maria Ignore Sarah, she forgot to take her medication today

Adrian How well can you translate them? If you need to work a bit to translate them, you are welcome to join.

P.S. to all: As I am a bit busy atm, I might not be able to keep posting confirmation of the correct answer and updates, so I'll just "like" the post that contains correct answer.

Sarah Karoline Sorry, I was joking about the Spanish and Estonian...

Maria Weidner So I am out, kecuali the ajoen stuff I understand everything

Adrian Baxt-Dent in the first verse, i am certain I don;t know linthnya and tingkahnya. I am 80% sure of the rest of that verse. I assume ajoen is kind of like "lah, lah, lah".....

Adrian Baxt-Dent and the final verse, the words in the same position....

Adrian Baxt-Dent Thanks for coming clean Sarah Karoline, I was trying to work out which word might be Estonian, that being the only language which you mentioned that I am certain I would have no chance at guessing.

Sarah Karoline I must apologise for causing confusion

I'd tried to make a joke, but failed miserably

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Adrian No, Ajoen does mean something, maybe not very obvious for foreigner but it does related to klapperboom.
Maria The last part of the song:

Djangan mandi kali Krembangan
Kali Krembangan, banjak batoenja
Djangan kawin, noni Krembangan
Noni Krembangan banjak koetoenja

hahaha here's part of the song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyuaSIMS-qs

Adrian Baxt-Dent i was just playing a silly FB game with "in die hoge klapeboom" reciting in my head. Did the dutch word klapa come from a related Indonesian or Malaysian word? if so, that phrase just clicked into clarity in my head (apart from the ajoen, which I WAS ignoring as a nonsense sylable, but will now think about.)

Adrian Baxt-Dent hang on Vincensiu Dionisiu, you said you would like answers that have correct bits..... is that part of the Dutch phrase "...in the high coconut tree"?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Adrian correct!

Sarah Karoline Semarang = a city

Adrian Baxt-Dent (and why isn't the Dutch word for coconut related to the German and English Kokosnuss/Coconut instead of the Indonesian Kelapa?)

Adrian Baxt-Dent Meneketehe???? Do I have to drag out my Indonesian dictionary after all????

Sarah Karoline Dutch appears to have three words for "coconut tree".

Adrian Baxt-Dent although that word doesn't FEEL Indonesian to me...

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter you won't find meneketehe in dictionary. it's a slang
meneketehe = mana ku tau = bagaimana aku bisa mengetahuinya = how am I suppose to know, lol

Adrian Baxt-Dent although that word doesn't FEEL Indonesian to me...

Adrian Baxt-Dent aaaaAAAAAhahhhhh

Adrian Baxt-Dent I googled meneketehe (are there any indonesian words with that many "e" altogether?) and found a song about ...well, people playing games with love...

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Adrian, I doubt there is any, maybe some localised slangs...
meanwhile for those of you who are fluent in Indonesian and sat out from this round, try to watch this and see how much can you understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unmfba_CqX0

Arief Wibowo (I'm co-moderating this round until Vincensiu Dionisiu wake up again

)

Arief Wibowo Yes, Sarah Karoline is correct about Semarang being a city name

Adrian Baxt-Dent a 10 hour gap??? and only Semarang as a place name and my Dutch bit is confirmed? We haven't even decided that the OTHER place name is ALSO a place name?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter That's pretty normal. We had rounds that lasted for 2 weeks

Arief Wibowo I think the Dutch bit is good... Vincensiu Dionisiu?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter yup so this far we got :p

Djangan mandi (di)kali Persapen
Kali Persapen banjak lintahnja;
Djangan kawin noni Persapen,
Noni Persapen banjak tingkahnja

Ajoen ajoen ajoen in the tall/high coconut tree
ajoen ajoen Mas Mira,
Djangan main gila.

Djangan mandi (di)kali Semarang,
Kali Semarang banjak oedangnja;
Djangan kawin noni Semarang,
Noni Semarang banjak oetangnja

Arief Wibowo Integrating Eugene Carmelo Cabanilla-Pedro's guess:
Djangan mandi (di)kali Persapen
Kali Persapen banjak lintahnja;
Djangan kawin noni Persapen,
Noni Persapen banjak tingkahnja

Ajoen ajoen ajoen in the tall/high coconut tree
ajoen ajoen Mas Mira,
Djangan main gila.

Djangan mandi (di)kali Semarang,
Kali Semarang banjak oedangnja;
Djangan kawin noni Semarang,
Noni Semarang banjak {his/her debt*}

*) the his/her bit is incorrect, but it will make sense after the rest of this sentence is translated

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Ah yeah, I forgot Eugene's input. Sorry :S

In that case we have got:

Don't mandi (di)kali Persapen
Kali Persapen banjak lintahnja;
Don't kawin noni Persapen,
Noni Persapen banjak tingkahnja

Ajoen ajoen ajoen in the tall/high coconut tree
ajoen ajoen Mas Mira,
Don't main gila.

Don't mandi (di)kali Semarang,
Kali Semarang banjak oedangnja;
Don't kawin noni Semarang,
Noni Semarang banjak {his/her debt*}

Remember, although the text looks long, actually most of the words are repetitive

Arief Wibowo Whoops, I read a guess but missed the other one

Adrian Baxt-Dent why is the "di" for "(di)kali" in parentheses?

Adrian Baxt-Dent ...and now that I actually think about it.... "kali" as "time" doesn't make any sense.....

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Adrian, as I mentioned before, I took the phrases from a song (video above)
the original lyrics of the song is
"Djangan mandi kali Persapen" which I believe is grammatically incorrect and might cause confusion/ambiguity to non native speakers, thus I added the (di) bit.
and yeah the "kali" in this song doesn't mean time or has any relation to time.
Actually as a native speaker who has been living in an English speaking country for several years, and almost never speak Indonesian anymore, I kinda forget the grammatical rule ><'
whether di has to be written attached to kali, or should I leave a space :S

Adrian Baxt-Dent http://www.elyrics.net/read/g/grayson-hugh-lyrics/time-is-like-a-river-lyrics.html

Not a related song, but... "kali"...

Arief Wibowo Di is attached to verb, decapitated from others (e.g., noun), because it has different meaning altogether...

Compare:
Ditelan = swallowed (passive voice)
Di rumah sakit = at hospital

(they are kinda different "di"s)

Arief Wibowo (y) Adrian Baxt-Dent, nice pun

Sarah Karoline I've stjälcuried the latest translation and added my own words in capital letters.

Don't BATHE (di)kali Persapen
Kali Persapen banjak lintahnja;
Don't PARTY *noni Persapen,
*Noni Persapen banjak tingkahnja

Ajoen ajoen ajoen in the tall/high coconut tree
ajoen ajoen Mas Mira,
Don't main GILA.

Don't BATHE (di)kali Semarang,
RIVER OF Semarang banjak oedangnja;
Don't PARTY *NONI Semarang,
NONI OF Semarang banjak {his/her debt*}
-----
Noni = the name of a fruit
Gila = the name of a type of fish.
Semarang = a city in Indonesia.
Mandi = bathe
Mas Mira = Look more (Spanish, there is Spanish!)

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Hahahahha
Im still laughing,

noni is indeed a name of fruit, an ugly fruit that I have forgotten about its existence centuries ago, lol
BUT not in this context!!

gila is not fish hahaha, it is a very important Indonesian word actually.

Kawin is not party!! It is a very dangerous mistranslation hahaha

Mandi is indeed bathe
kali = river

Sarah Karoline That's mean, laughing at my hard work!

Christian James Meredith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_reform#Indonesian btw, a hint for people.

Sarah Karoline Gracias Christian Grazie Vincensiu

Christian James Meredith BTW, did "cuaca" used to be spelt "tjoeatja"? If so, that looks almost Australian Aboriginal

Sarah Karoline Gila = crazy

Christian James Meredith Ya, betul, Sarah.

Sarah Karoline "Crazy fish be partying in t'river with fruit" could be an interesting song...

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Sarah just curious,
where did u get ikan = gila?
I have never heard that b4

Sarah Karoline Kamus.net: "gila" = a type of fish. [Edit: also a river]

Sarah Karoline ikan? I can't see...

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter ooops ikan = fish
My question suppose to be "where did you get fish=gila"

I'm lost in translation

Sarah Karoline http://www.kamus.net/english/gila

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Дайте Billy help this poor Sarah, she's alone

Sarah Karoline ....in solitary confinement - haha

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Sarah, u r using dict on the wrong direction :p

Sarah Karoline What was that you were saying about "lost in translation".. hahahahahahahahaha, oh nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [What a strange thing to do...]

Adrian Baxt-Dent Sarah Karoline, do you want me to help some more? It is a little bit like cheating.

Sarah Karoline I'll see if I can find some more words... then I just may holler, "help"

[Now I'm using the right part of the dictionary, I may have more success....haha]

Andy Ayres I've been working on this since yesterday. Some of the words are very difficult to locate (I've been using, e.g. "Indonesian dictionary noni" as a search in Google/google images) so don't laugh too hard if the gaps I've filled are ludicrous

Don't bathe in the river of Persapen:
The river of Persapen has many leeches (in it) -
Don't party (with a?) Persapen girl,
A Persapen girl has many behaviours/whims.

Climb, climb up into the tall coconut tree
Climb climb higher
Don't play crazy/don't gamble crazily.

Don't bathe in the Semarang river,
The river of Semarang has many shrimp
Don't party with a Semarang girl,
A Semarang girl has many debts

Adrian Baxt-Dent I assume kawi is as in mengawinkan ?

Adrian Baxt-Dent Which I really hope I spelled correctly. I forget how to affix the /men-/ prefix to a k word....

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Don't bathe in the river of Persapen:
The river of Persapen has many leeches (in it) -
Don't [party] with a Persapen girl*,
A Persapen girl* has many behaviours/whims.

[Climb, climb up into] the tall coconut tree
[Climb climb higher]
Don't play crazy*.

Don't bathe in the Semarang river,
The river of Semarang has many shrimp
Don't [party] with a Semarang girl*,
A Semarang girl* has many debts

* Persapen/Semarang girls:
Although from the way it is written it seems like the writer in this song referring to Persapen/Semarang girls in general, but actually (dia) is referring to a specific girl (only 1 girl)

ajoen is not climb
kawin is not party!! This is a very dangerous mistranslation!!
where did you get this from Andy? Whoever provide this translation must be a troll/ prankster!

Adrian, your are right,
if I want to write the sentence into a proper grammar, it should be: Jangan berkawin dengan noni Semarang.
I'll explain more when the word is translated

Andy Ayres I was going by Sarah's translation - didn't see your note! My word, just looked it up in the dictionary and it's a really bad translation xD. Reättempting in a few minutes

Andy Ayres Don't bathe in the river of Persapen:
The river of Persapen has many leeches (in it) -
Don't marry a Persapen girl*/Persapen girls/the Persapen girl,
A/The Persapen girl has /Persapen girls has many behaviours/whims.

Swing, swing in the tall coconut tree
Swing, swing, Mas Mira (a name?)
Don't play crazy*/act foolish/make a mistake.

Don't bathe in the Semarang river,
The river of Semarang has many shrimp
Don't marry a/the Semarang girl/s,
The/A Semarang girl/s has/have many debts

Adrian Baxt-Dent So... we still don;t have "ajoen"? As there are some Spanish words (apparently...just believing what I read) could it be that we have the Spanish for "Garlic" with the added germanic plural "-en"?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Ajoen/ayun does means swing, but in this case it can be interpreted as shake, shake the coconut tree so the coconut will fall down.

banyak tingkah: I don't even know what this means until Arief told me. I know that I am one though :p
When I was a kid my mum always say that I am "banyak tingkah" so I presume it means naughty, but it actually means behaviour problems & inconsistent whims - u are right

Main gila: pretend to be stupid/ flirting with many girls

Adrian mengawinkan... it's hard for me to explain this:
like if a priest marry John & Jane:
Pastor itu mengawinkan John & Jane
John berkawin dengan Jane
John mengawini Jane

Sarah Karoline Banjak, according to Kamus, has 1001 meanings: amount, ample, great, handsome, plenty...

Sarah Karoline tingkah - whim

Andy Ayres Ok, let's try:

Don't bathe in the river of Persapen:
The river of Persapen has many leeches (in it) -
Don't marry a Persapen girl*/Persapen girls/the Persapen girl,
A/The Persapen girl has /Persapen girls has many behaviours/whims.

Shake, shake the tall coconut tree
Shake, Shake, Mas Mira (a name?)
Don't pretend to be stupid/flirt with many girls

Don't bathe in the Semarang river,
The river of Semarang has many shrimp
Don't marry a/the Semarang girl/s,
The/A Semarang girl/s has/have many debts

Sarah Karoline [Now I've seen all of Vincensiu's message. I hadn't pressed "see more", so the explanation remained incognito]

Adrian Baxt-Dent Is it shrimp? What is bad about bathing in a river with shrimp?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I have never heard banjak/banyak as handsome...
OMG many strange translation out there

Oh BTW Sarah, don't worry about the suffixes in Indonesian
in real world conversation, no one use them :p

Adrian, it's just for the rhyme purposes
oetang - oedang, lintah - tingkah

Sarah Karoline I thought Kamus.net was a good dictionary...

Sarah Karoline p.s. I hadn't noticed the suffixes.... My knowledge is of Indonesian remains close to 1 phrase.

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Andy

Adrian Baxt-Dent Is the Mas in "Mas Mira" the respectful usage of "brother" as a ... "title"?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter and the last part of the song

Djangan mandi kali Krembangan
Kali Krembangan, banjak batoenja
Djangan kawin, noni Krembangan
Noni Krembangan banjak koetoenja

Dont bathe in Krembangan river, many stone/rocks/pebbles
Dont marry the Krembangan girl, she has got many fleas/lices

Rhyme: batoenja - koetoenja

Andy Ayres Yay! Thanks, Vincensiu! Glad the time invested paid off :). This was the most difficult round so far for me because of my abject lack of knowledge of Indonesian. What an intriguing song

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Adrian, ya benar!!
Especially in Java (Where Semarang, Persapen & Krembangan is situated)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0VJeQ-4550

Adrian Baxt-Dent Is it being rude about people of certain regions? And is it based on stereotypes that are common? (Similar to "Auf der Schwaebische Eisenbahn.")?

Sarah Karoline Andy: I hereby introduce my new card....

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter haha not at all, it is just a plain joke. No relation at all....

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Imagine if a man mistaken kawin as play
and say to a girl: ayo kawin (let's get married)

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