Round 182 | Språkspelet

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Andy Ayres Thanks for the congratulations, everyone :D. This was so difficult to crack, but a very interesting challenge. Next round's challenge :):

Qegħdin fuq mejda jieklu u kulħadd jgħid b' Sant Antnin għandu l-mirakli u l-ħwejjeġ il-mitlufin isibhom. Mbagħad kien hemm wieħed sinjur qalilhom : "jien ma nemmen f' xejn", qalilhom, "għax jien kelli ċurkett tliftu u tlabt il San Antnin biex iġibthuli", qalilhom, "imma ma ġġibulix." U jarah jaqa' minn fuq quddiemu; qallu: "ara, ġiebuli fuq il-mejda Sant Antnin."

Sarah Karoline Nicolás Thank you for introducing us to Mapuche, a very difficult language . Now I know what to answer, when Omniglotters pose the question, "what's the most complicated language?" lol

I think Andy's new round may also answer this question...

Sarah Karoline It looks like Maltese...

Andy Ayres That's right, Sarah! Its very distinctive orthography gives it away

Sarah Karoline That was slight guesswork on my part. I haven't learned any Maltese yet

Andy Ayres It's well worth looking into - a fascinating bridge between Europe and the Arab world, Romance and Semitic

Sarah Karoline I'm gathering together some resources now...

Sarah Karoline Some words:
U - and. il mejda - the table. Sant Antnin - Saint Anthony of Padua. Ara - see. [Search continues... :)]

Andy Ayres All correct

Sarah Karoline Version 1. First line.
Sit down at the table and eat everything [jgħid], says Saint Anthony.

The following is rather wrong, but I'll add it for comedy effect.
The miracles and the lost clothes have been located.

Andy Ayres ({Sit down}) at the table and {eat} [everything] JGĦID, [says] Saint Anthony

The second sentence (edit: second part of the first sentence!) does include miracles and lost clothes being located, but is phrased, rather differently indeed :p

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Stjallcuri from SK:

The lost clothes has been located. It's a miracle?

Sarah Karoline Hm... there's still quite a bit of work to do. haha
Perhaps I'll read about grammar first...

My sources:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tbbhk91GH60C&printsec=frontcover&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=jg%C4%A7id%20&f=false

http://glosbe.com/en/mt/jg%C4%A7id

Andy Ayres I'm afraid to say that that's even further out than Sarah's original, VIncensiu ;). Once you connect it with the half of the sentence that precedes it, it should be too difficult to find the right order though

Sarah Karoline I shall continue pondering and return with a second attempt after dinner... [In the meantime stjälcuriing and "förbettering" may occur

]

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Mbagħad kien hemm wieħed sinjur qalilhom : "jien ma nemmen f' xejn"

Then he was there the Lord said: I believe nothing

Andy Ayres Good stuff, Vincensiu!

Then ({he was there}) ... [the Lord] ... said: I {believe nothing}.

{} = ballpark () = position needs to be changed ... missing elements

Arief Wibowo The Maltese text looked Albanian to me...

Sarah Karoline Attempt 2. An incomplete second and third sentence.

There [kien] there is one Lord (said): ["jien ma] I believe [f'xejn"], said.

because [jien kelli] ring [tfliftu] and I requested Saint Anthony to [iġibthuli", qalilhom, "imma ma ġġibulix."]

and watched fall from (front); said “see, [ġiebuli fuq] the table, Saint Anthony.“

Andy Ayres Some good progress Sarah, particularly on the latter part of the second sentence :).

"... there KIEN [there is] {one} [lord]... ({said}). "JIEN MA (I) (believe) F' XEJN," ... said

because JIEN KELLI ring TFLIFTU and I requested Saint Anthony to....

and watched (fall) from {front}; ... said..., "see, ĠIEBULI FUQ the table, Saint Anthony."

Sarah Karoline Thank You for your review

There is still much to do. I'll try to make complete sentences after work today, unless it's already been translated to perfection!

Zeke Kornberg ooooh...Maltese! I wanted to learn Maltese for a while. let's see what I can guess:
Sitting at the table, they ate and each one (something) about Saint Anthony that he has the miracles...
After there was...a man who said to them...he said to them...he said: but they haven't given to me...

Maria Maddalena Fanin Noo, Edmund. The Saint is linked to the porcellino, but they did not eat it!

Edmund Yong just kidding. I deleted the comment

Andy Ayres Good effort, Zeke :). Here's the review. [] incorrect, {} ball-park, ... missing

Sitting at the table, {they ate} and {each one} ... about Saint Anthony {that he has} [the] miracles....

{After} there was a... man who said to them .... he said to them... he said:... but [they] {haven't given} ... to me

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Qegħdin fuq mejda jieklu u kulħadd jgħid b' Sant Antnin għandu l-mirakli u l-ħwejjeġ il-mitlufin isibhom

Sitting at the table, they have been eating and everyone saying Saint Anthony has miracles and he found the lost clothes.

Andy Ayres Quick check-in whilst my students are doing a bit of independent group work. Glad to see some activity here - was starting to think folk had forgotten about this thread ;).

Sitting at the table, {they have been eating} and everyone {saying} ... Saint Anthony {has} miracles and ... he found [the] lost clothes.

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter my source said that
jieklu - 3 pl imperfect
jgħid - 3sg imperfect

I don't know how to construct imperfect in English :S

Matteo Дайте How good is your Maltese?

Andy Ayres The source is right, but that's not the imperfect - that's the perfect present continuous.

Andy Ayres I'm afraid, it's not wrapped - "lost clothes" is fine in this circumstance.

Zeke Kornberg oops. I was confused, and deleted my comment before you answered.

Andy Ayres No worries!

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Andy, you do just exactly as what I always do lol
When my clients finally fall asleep and my supervisor is not around, I would pull my mobile and log on into facebook.

Sentado al mesa, ellos comian y todas las personas decian....
but in English???

Andy Ayres Hehe, I try to engineer one or two circumstances where I can check the FB without chaos ensuing in the classroom :p. With the youngest kids and the adults, it's more difficult!

That's correct in Spanish :D. Have a look up the imperfect on wiki for example, it's not too tough to form

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Another attempt for line 1:

Qegħdin fuq mejda jieklu u kulħadd jgħid b' Sant Antnin għandu l-mirakli u l-ħwejjeġ il-mitlufin isibhom

Sitting at the table, They were eating and everyone said that Saint Anthony (he) possess miracles and that his miracle found lost clothes.

Somehow I understand the idea of this sentence, but I really don't know how to reword it

St Anthony possess miracles
His miracles worked in the situation which has caused the lost clothes to be found.

Andy Ayres Getting there, Vincensiu :). As always - blank - correct; {} - ballpark, [] - incorrect

Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone {said} [that] Saint Anthony [he possess] miracles and that [his miracle] {found} lost clothes.

Sarah Karoline I'm back

with my third attempt at line 1:
Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone WAS SAYING Saint Anthony PERFORMS miracles, and that THE MIRACLES LOCATE lost clothes.

Andy Ayres Even closer :).

Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was [say]ing ... Saint Anthony [performs] miracles, and [that THE MIRACLES] {locate} lost clothes.

The second part is almost correct - Saint Anthony ... miracles and ... locate (different verb form) lost clothes. A little clue: it's not the miracles that find the clothes

Zeke Kornberg Is it imperative? "everyone was telling saint Anthony to perform miracles and find the lost clothes"?

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was talking about Saint Anthony's miracles, and he located lost clothes.

Andy Ayres Almost perfect, Vincensiu! Just missing one word.

Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was talking about Saint Anthony's miracles, and ... he located lost clothes.

Zeke Kornberg how he located?

Andy Ayres yes, Zeke! Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was talking about Saint Anthony's miracles, and how he located lost clothes.

Zeke Kornberg Cool. I see it isn't a very literal translation.

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Bueno, ahora la segunda linea....

Andy Ayres It is a translation of the meaning of the text. If one or two words appear in English that don't appear in the Maltese, that is because their inclusion was necessitated to effectively communicate its meaning in an idiomatic manner.

Zeke Kornberg Yeah. That'll make it so much harder.

Andy Ayres Part of the challenge is the literal translation, the other part is making it make sense and flow properly. If translated literally, it would sound very weird. "St Anthony at him the miracles!" xD

Zeke Kornberg Okay, attempting next line.
Mbaghad kien hemm. Afterwards there was with them.
Wiehed sinjor qalilhom. a man said to them.
jien ma nemmen f' xejn. someone said before that ma nemmen is "I don't believe". f' xejn is "in them"?

Andy Ayres Not in them, but f' = in is right.

{Afterwards} there was [with them] a man... said to them: "I don't believe in [them]."

Zeke Kornberg Then there was a man who said to them: "I don't believe in it".

Andy Ayres Good stuff, just the last word to look at. To communicate the meaning of xejn here, I'd add two words after "in it." Then there was a man who said to them: "I don't believe in it ..."

Zeke Kornberg xejn means nothing, right?
I guess it should be "Then there was a man who said to them: "I don't believe in it at all".

Sarah Karoline This is my attempt at line three. I'm still stuck on line 2, but Zeke is doing it well

I'm also unable to find two words in line three.

U jarah jaqa' minn fuq quddiemu; qallu: "ara, ġiebuli fuq il-mejda Sant Antnin." =
and watched HIM fall from [quddiemu]: gallus: “see,[ġiebuli] at the table, Saint Anthony.“

Zeke Kornberg I think quddiemu is "in front of him". and giebuli has to do with giving. Either "I was given", "they gave me" "he gave me"...something like that.

Andy Ayres Zeke - perfect second line :). Great stuff!

Sarah - Good work too :). With a couple of words, one of you could have the final sentence and the task complete!

"And ... watched [him] fall from QUDDIEMU;; GALLUS: "See, ĠIEBULI [at] the table (Saint Anthony.)

quddiemu is in front of him :). ġiebuli isn't referring to the verb "give" here, but to something semantically quite similar I suppose ;).

Zeke Kornberg Back to the second line:
he said to them: "because every ring I lost and asked Saint Anthony to bring me", he said to them: "but he didn't bring to me".
A bit stilted, it needs to be fixed a little. But I think that's the gist of it.
ġieb- is to bring.

Andy Ayres Very close! Just a few missing words and such:

he said to them: "because [every] ring ... I lost and ... asked Saint Anthony to bring ... me", he said to them: "but he didn't bring ... to me".

Adrian Baxt-Dent I wish I could stjälcuri this one, but I haven't been following closely enough... I am looking now though.

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter last line:

U jarah jaqa' minn fuq quddiemu; qallu: "ara, ġiebuli fuq il-mejda Sant Antnin."

and he watched him fell forward; he said: "See, St Anthony catches him with the table".

Andy Ayres Quick check-in, bit of a hectic day today -

and he watched [him] {fell} [forward]...; he said: "See, St Anthony [catches him with the] table...

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Sorry guys @ work today...
With limited internet and resources, il est tres dificile pour moi par conduct a research

Zeke Kornberg Second line again:
he said to them: "because each ring I had I lost then asked Saint Anthony to bring it to me", he said to them: "but he didn't bring it to me".

Andy Ayres Hey folks! On my mobile at the minute at work. Zeke, perfect second line. All that remains is the last line. I'll try to put a review together shortly.

Andy Ayres and he watched [him] {fell} [forward]...; he said: "See, St Anthony [catches him with the] table...

Andy Ayres Everything is correct, bar the last line. Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was talking about Saint Anthony's miracles, and how he located lost clothes. Then there was a man who said to them: "I don't believe in it at all", he said to them: "because each ring I had I lost then asked Saint Anthony to bring it to me", he said to them: "but he didn't bring it to me". And he watched [him] {fell} [forward]...; he said: "See, St Anthony [catches him with the] table...

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Stjälcuri anyone?
I can't proceed any further.
Zeke Maybe you can finish it off

Sarah Karoline This last line has been troubling me for days... I couldn't find these words in the dictionary, but I've reread Andy's notes and been a little creative. My fourth version of the 3rd line:

And he watched them fall in front of him. He said: "See, St. Anthony carries/brings them to the table."

Andy Ayres Very close, Sarah! And he watched [them] fall in front of him. He said: "See, St. Anthony {brings} them to the table ... "

Sarah Karoline I'll try again.... Confidence rate: 21%!

"And he watched it fall in front of him. He said: "see St. Anthony carries them to the table."

Andy Ayres So, so close, Sarah :)! Missing two words at the end and the wrong object in the quote. Carries and brings both got {}, so my clue is, perhaps the small change needed is not one of lexical choice ;)?

And he watched it fall in front of him. He said: "see, St. Anthony {carries} [them] to the table...

Sarah Karoline I'm thinking, I'm thinking.... Hm...

Sarah Karoline I've made two changes. I'm still hunting the two words I've missed out....
---
"And he watched it fall in front of him. He said: "see, St. Anthony carried it to the table."

Andy Ayres Correct! Just missing the two words - one last clue, ġiebuli has an inherent object as well as subject :)... and accounts for the two words that are missing.

Sarah Karoline Uhmmmm......

[Neuro AppCrash: error 418]

Subject = "he". Inherent object = (still thinking).
"See, St. Anthony he carried it to the table."

Andy Ayres That was a little badly phrased on my part. there is an inherent subject (he, which doesn't need to be added to the sentence) and direct object (it). but also an indirect object that represents the two missing words

Sarah Karoline I'm genuinely stuck....., although it is probably very obvious to all.... Are the midnight crew around to help out.....

Andy Ayres Take a guess at who St Anthony brought it to, I'm pretty sure you'll get it right

Sarah Karoline Last night I was out of ideas... I'm back to guesswork: "See, St. Anthony, (he) carried it to the table FOR HIM."

The full text:
Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was talking about Saint Anthony's miracles, and how he located lost clothes.

Then there was a man who said to them: "I don't believe in it at all because each ring I had I lost then asked Saint Anthony to bring it to me", he said to them: "but he didn't bring it to me".

"And he watched it fall in front of him. He said: "see, St. Anthony (he) carried it to the table."

Andy Ayres One word left in line 3! On further examination, though, there are a few errors in the second section that I didn't spot correctly last night (was at work and only had time for very quick connections on my phone.)

Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was talking about Saint Anthony's miracles, and how he located lost clothes.

Then there was a man who said to them: "I don't believe in it at all because [each] ring (I had [I] lost) then asked Saint Anthony to bring it to me", he said to them: "but he didn't bring it to me".

"And he watched it fall in front of him. He said: "see, St. Anthony carried it to the table for [him]."

Sarah Karoline Oh no!

Will I ever let this down. One word is preventing me from translating a sentence.. Perhaps I can blame multitasking the game and work...haha
The text in full.

Line 1:
Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was talking about Saint Anthony's miracles, and how he located lost clothes.

Line 2:
Then there was a man who said to them: "I don't believe in it at all because I had lost every/the ring" (and) then asked Saint Anthony to bring it to me", he said to them: "but he didn't bring it to me".

Line 3:
"And he watched it fall in front of him. He said: "see, St. Anthony carried it to the table for US."
---

Andy Ayres Line 2 is correct! A different pronoun in line 3 and you've got it, Sarah

Line 1:
Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was talking about Saint Anthony's miracles, and how he located lost clothes.

Line 2:
Then there was a man who said to them: "I don't believe in it at all because I had lost the ring and then asked Saint Anthony to bring it to me", he said to them: "but he didn't bring it to me".

Line 3:
"And he watched it fall in front of him. He said: "see, St. Anthony carried it to the table for [us]."

Sarah Karoline Oh this is fun... the hunt for a pronoun that is taking me two days...
Line 1:
Sitting at the table, they were eating and everyone was talking about Saint Anthony's miracles, and how he located lost clothes.

Line 2:
Then there was a man who said to them: "I don't believe in it at all because I had lost the ring and then asked Saint Anthony to bring it to me", he said to them: "but he didn't bring it to me".

Line 3:
"And he watched it fall in front of him. He said: "see, St. Anthony carried it to the table for ME."

And here are the lyrics from the SpS Song....

Edmund Yong I've been following this thread waiting impatiently for someone to solve this.

COME ON!!!

Sarah Karoline hahaha

I'm trying very hard. You can play the game too - it's open to everyone

Andy Ayres Sarah Karoline - winner :D! Congratulations!

http://s1.card-images.com/images/products/BG773_Z.jpg

Zeke Kornberg Andy, what's the source of this paragraph?

Edmund Yong finally~ YAY!!!

Edmund Yong finally~ YAY!!! ^_^

Adrian Baxt-Dent Looks like I missed my opportunity for a steal at the end. Congratulations Sarah Karoline!!!!

Maria Maddalena Fanin Bravissimi tutti!!!

Andy Ayres My translation:

They were all at the table eating, and everyone was speaking about Saint Anthony's miracles and how he finds lost clothes. Then, there was a gentleman who said to them, “I don't believe that at all, because I had a ring, which I lost. I asked St. Anthony to bring it to me, but he did not find it for me. And he saw the ring fall in front of him, and he told him, “look, St. Anthony brought it to the table for me.”

Zeke - I got it from a French-language glossed book of Maltese folk stories

Edmund - You could have tried solving it yourself if you were really wanting the round to finish

Edmund Yong Andy Ayres when I "arrived" , they were already halfway through.

Peter Dejaeger something like : lion = king of the animalworld = predator = ....

not real names indeed !

Sarah Karoline Oh, I've won! I thought I was going to be wrong or that there was another word I'd missed out

Adrian: Perhaps you'll stjälcuri the next round!

I partially stjälcuried most of the second line from Zeke and I feel guilty

Edmund I don't think there's any rules on when a player can start a game. Arief Vincensiu Christian

Andy Ayres Peter - did you mean to post your lion comments in a different thread?

Edmund Yong no, I mean I don't want to cut in knowing nothing .

Andy Ayres People have come in in the past with only two or three words left to translate and stjälcuried the win

Sarah Karoline Edmund: I knew nothing from the start and I still don't know.. lol

I am going to learn some Maltese for next time!

Adrian Baxt-Dent I stjälcuried the first game I joined. THere were not many words left to find.

Peter Dejaeger andy did something go wrong ... or ?

Andy Ayres I was just wondering whether you meant to talk about lions in this thread, because we were talking about something completely different so I guessed you might have wanted to post in another thread? if you did mean to post in this thread, what were you responding to?

Sarah Karoline I am composing a text... Shall I be as mean as Alan the Cat or as nice as Gretchen.... That is the question...

Peter Dejaeger where did my lion remark go then? it's indeed gone where i wanted it : the list of 300 lion names...

Adrian Baxt-Dent It is also here Peter about 11 or 12 comments up.

Sarah Karoline I've chosen the path of Mephisto.... Coming soon!

Zeke Kornberg Sarah, don't feel guilty. I wanted you to finish it so I wouldn't have to be in charge of the next round ;).

Adrian Baxt-Dent Mephisto from Faust? or another Mephisto? (we did Faust when I was at Uni in the German Theatre group.... not even for class or course credits or anything.)

Edmund Yong I think we should make a unit for 'comment'

'com' maybe with 'up' or 'before' 11 upcom or 11 becom

Adrian Baxt-Dent or "Prement"???

Sarah Karoline Zeke hahaha Ok, I won't feel quilty for stjälcuring!
Adrian Yes, Faust's Mephisto! We had to read the book too. A few years ago I saw Faust - the play in Old German...for fun

Edmund Yong we may need 'aft' too

Adrian Baxt-Dent OOooOOohhh!!!! Post the OLD German version!!!! please!?!?!?!?!

Sarah Karoline Adrian The Old German version of the story was a play performed in an alley in Prague.... I'm always searching for OG texts and textbooks. I can't find any though...

I'm almost finished with the new round

Edmund Yong there must be a lot Old German textbooks IN GERMAN

waiting~

Arief Wibowo (sorry I have been away for lots and lots of work...

I miss the game but still can't participate!)

Yes, Edmund Yong, you and everybody else may join the round anytime (preferably before the round is solved

)

In my absence, please enjoy the game!

But rest assured, http://youtu.be/bgLfOrVJJMg

Sarah Karoline Edmund I found a very expensive textbook in German for Old German. I'm still on the search for something reasonably priced.

Sarah Karoline Shall I start my new round here?

Arief Wibowo And (belated) welcome to the game, Paul Vivier, Maria Maddalena Fanin and Peter Dejaeger

Arief Wibowo Yes, and guys, enjoy Sarah Karoline's round!!!
(And me, try to have fun working......................)

Adrian Baxt-Dent I guess if this round is going to be German, I will quit now, and go to bed, so that I can play the next round. although...it IS only 1:26 am...

Andy Ayres Likewise, if it's German and isn't some funky dialectical variety thereof, I'll have to rule myself out too

Adrian Baxt-Dent Unless it is another multilingual one....

Edmund Yong ONLY.
nah, German and other major languages are too "easy".
maybe some Low German dialects

Sarah Karoline No German, Adrian and Andy
I can't promise no other languages will be present...

Adrian Baxt-Dent Don't tell me that!! I was looking for a reason to go to bed!!!!

Sarah Karoline In recent weeks we have had some complicated rounds, so I debated for about seven minutes whether to come up with an equally complicated round or whether to be nice.

Sadly Mephisto and Alan the Evil Cat have led me into the murky darkness of the underworld in Ragnakarta, the ancient city of Sweindonesia, where wraiths, ghouls and Vikings in eternal limbo argue and battle.

I would like to dedicate this round to Malin (the progenitor of this game), Victor and Billy (two of the resident Professor Emeritus’ of Sprogspelet) and everyone who loves the Lands of the Midnight Sun and of the Gruel-Filled Vikings in the Days of Yore.

Finally I would like to thank Billy for proofreading my text...

I hereby present my round to everyone.

Some tagging: Adrian Baxt-Dent Andy Ayres Edmund Yong Arief Wibowo Vincensiu Dionisiu Christian James Meredith Maria Weidner Maria Maddalena Fanin Zeke Дайте Нефть Из Баку Mikkel

Have I forgotten anyone?

Round
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