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Dago Lesmes Suagua Round 195 is here, everybody. It's a very short phrase; which you'll see written in IPA, and one of the transcription systems for this language.
raʂʃtʰa ħjʷɨzt͡ɕʷʰa rt͡ʂʼɨ, dɨzbajt'.
rašta hj°əzc°a rč'ə, dəzbajt'.
рашҭа ҳӡəызцəа рҿы, дызбаит.
raʂʃtʰa ħjʷɨzt͡ɕʷʰa rt͡ʂʼɨ, dɨzbajt'.
rašta hj°əzc°a rč'ə, dəzbajt'.
рашҭа ҳӡəызцəа рҿы, дызбаит.
Dago Lesmes Suagua In order to make the language identification easier, here's an IPA transcription of a popular song in that language. But, of course, the following lines are NOT part of the game. That would really be evil.
alaħʷɛjpʰʂʃ ejkʷʰat͡ɕʼʷɔ t͡ʂʰɨpʰʂʃd͡za kʼʷaʂʃa-kʼaʂʃɔ,
amza χat͡ʂʼɨ laʂʃejpʰʂʃ, uqʼamara d͡zɨmʂʃaχa,
adɨd mat͡ɕʷʰɨs ejpʰʂʃ jɨzɨrʂʃanχɔ juxʷapʰʂʃwa...
dtʰawgalɔjt aʂʃtʰa adyga tʰat͡sa
alaħʷɛjpʰʂʃ ejkʷʰat͡ɕʼʷɔ t͡ʂʰɨpʰʂʃd͡za kʼʷaʂʃa-kʼaʂʃɔ,
amza χat͡ʂʼɨ laʂʃejpʰʂʃ, uqʼamara d͡zɨmʂʃaχa,
adɨd mat͡ɕʷʰɨs ejpʰʂʃ jɨzɨrʂʃanχɔ juxʷapʰʂʃwa...
dtʰawgalɔjt aʂʃtʰa adyga tʰat͡sa
Dago Lesmes Suagua It's day 222 of Sprogspelet... Did I ever tell you my favorite number was 222? ^_^
Dago Lesmes Suagua Andy Arief Vincensiu Wrik Robbin Anna Billy Christian Nicolás El Lobo Sarah Maria Matteo Edmund Josva Helene Adrian
Dago Lesmes Suagua 1. Inside the word -hj°əzc°a-, there's a root that means friend!
But remember that Abkhaz is agglutinative; usually its words are translated as phrases by isolating languages like ours.
2. Nope, "rč'ə" is not even an adjective. In fact, it's not a single word either.
But remember that Abkhaz is agglutinative; usually its words are translated as phrases by isolating languages like ours.
2. Nope, "rč'ə" is not even an adjective. In fact, it's not a single word either.
Dago Lesmes Suagua Nope. But you're right about the first person!
Here's how you should divide the word to find its meaning...
h---j°əz---c°a
j°əz is the root for "friend"
Here's how you should divide the word to find its meaning...
h---j°əz---c°a
j°əz is the root for "friend"
Dago Lesmes Suagua Actually I can, but following the old Sprogspelet tradition of making it challenging; I won't post the Cyrillic version -YET-.
However, there are very good online resources that can tell you the IPA value of each Abkhaz Cyrillic letter
However, there are very good online resources that can tell you the IPA value of each Abkhaz Cyrillic letter
Anna Robbins How did I miss the start of this round? 
I'll drop in again if I have time, but I have some circuits to study this weekend 
I'll drop in again if I have time, but I have some circuits to study this weekend Wrik Chatterjee If by /a/ you meant /ɑ/, the Cyrillic would be something like Рашҭa ҳиәызцәи рчи, дизбайть.
Dago Lesmes Suagua 1. About your cyrillic transcription, what's between brackets is not strictly correct.
Рашҭa ҳиәызцә[и] рч[и], д[и]зба[йть].
2. As far as I know, no. But now that I think of it, there can be some etymological background between both. Maybe.
Рашҭa ҳиәызцә[и] рч[и], д[и]зба[йть].
2. As far as I know, no. But now that I think of it, there can be some etymological background between both. Maybe.
Dago Lesmes Suagua Watch out..... Now you only have two mistakes....
"Рашҭa ҳиәызцә[ы] рчы дызба[ы]т"
"Рашҭa ҳиәызцә[ы] рчы дызба[ы]т"
Dago Lesmes Suagua Well, there are two essential vowels, right? "ы" and "_". It's the blank one the one you need!
Dago Lesmes Suagua Stop with the hatred :p
And as an additional note, I think you should stick to the Romanized text rather than the Cyrillic version.
And as an additional note, I think you should stick to the Romanized text rather than the Cyrillic version.
Dago Lesmes Suagua Not for nothing, it might prove useful for you.... I'm just pointing out that the source I used, was using a "romanized" Abkhaz rather than the Cyrillic one.
Dago Lesmes Suagua 1. Not quite Wrik, but the word appears in the dictionary provided by Robbin.
2. Christian, as far as I've seen Romanized Abkhaz has more English language resources. Cyrillic Abkhaz will take you on a journey through Russian websites.
3. I think you're overcomplicating your life Wrik. I'd try to look out for descriptive grammar resources of Abkhaz.
2. Christian, as far as I've seen Romanized Abkhaz has more English language resources. Cyrillic Abkhaz will take you on a journey through Russian websites.
3. I think you're overcomplicating your life Wrik. I'd try to look out for descriptive grammar resources of Abkhaz.
Christian James Meredith Okey dokey then! Romanised is the working script then!
Wrik *shudders with a mixture of fear and delight*
Wrik *shudders with a mixture of fear and delight*
Christian James Meredith raʂʃtʰa ħjʷɨzt͡ɕʷʰa rt͡ʃʰɨ, dɨzbajt'.
rašta hj°əzc°a rč'ə, dəzbajt'.
Going by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhaz_alphabet, your IPA seems a little OTT haha. Also, should "h" be different? Or are there competing romanisations?
Going by IPA:
рашҭa ҳҩиzҵa рҽи, дизбаит, it seems, although not a single one of these words seems to exist according to google :-/
rašta hj°əzc°a rč'ə, dəzbajt'.
Going by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhaz_alphabet, your IPA seems a little OTT haha. Also, should "h" be different? Or are there competing romanisations?
Going by IPA:
рашҭa ҳҩиzҵa рҽи, дизбаит, it seems, although not a single one of these words seems to exist according to google :-/
Christian James Meredith And this is as close as I can come to a descriptive grammar
https://ia600506.us.archive.org/13/items/rosettaproject_abk_morsyn-1/rosettaproject_abk_morsyn-1.pdf
Anyone got any better one? This will be a slog without it, since Abkhaz seems to have even less resources than ainu on the net, and the Ainu one took a week or so :-/
https://ia600506.us.archive.org/13/items/rosettaproject_abk_morsyn-1/rosettaproject_abk_morsyn-1.pdf
Anyone got any better one? This will be a slog without it, since Abkhaz seems to have even less resources than ainu on the net, and the Ainu one took a week or so :-/
Christian James Meredith 'eres another one:
http://www.abyzshwa.narod.ru/grammar.htm
There's also a scribd one if someone feels like liberating it:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/134630653/Abkhaz-A-Descriptive-Grammar
http://www.abyzshwa.narod.ru/grammar.htm
There's also a scribd one if someone feels like liberating it:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/134630653/Abkhaz-A-Descriptive-Grammar
Christian James Meredith I'm going with "(something) our friend (something), (something)-past indefinite."
Dago Lesmes Suagua Christian, no... The Cyrillic would be рашҭа ҳӡəызцəа рчы, дызбаит. Take into account that the "o" like apostrophe (in Cyrillic, ә) is not an "o" (in Cyrillic, ҩ); you're mixing them up. The "c°" (in Cyrillic, цә) is not an ejective.
About the "рчы", I've decided on ч; but it's true it could even be "ҽ" or "ҿ"; I'll check that one.
About the "рчы", I've decided on ч; but it's true it could even be "ҽ" or "ҿ"; I'll check that one.
Dago Lesmes Suagua About your guess, there's a "our-friend" floating in the sentence, yes. And you've correctly identified the last word as a verb; but I'm afraid it's not past indefinite.
It's quite close, though ^_^
It's quite close, though ^_^
Dago Lesmes Suagua You were right Christian.... The correct Cyrillic form is "рҿы"; NOT "рчы"; since I've checked again and it turned out to be a /t͡ʂʼ/ instead of a /t͡ʃʰ/. The OP of this round has been altered to show the change.
Christian James Meredith Dago Lesmes that "o" I used is actually an "o" with a little thing underneath it, not a normal "o". The under-letter diacritics collide a bit though.
I'm gonna go with, then:
r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə, də.z.ba.jt'.
. = guess at a morpheme break.
də I presume has something to do with the 3rd person animate doing the action, z I have no clue, could also be "zba" as the root? Anyway, I'm assuming r- has some sort of morphemic value as I couldn't find the first word as a whole in the dictionary (I did find ašt-á though, as "court, yard" and "á-š'+ta(insert extra crazy letters) for "after her"). Also "št(')a" seems to have something to do with lying (at a location).
Problem is I can't find what r- should do, if anything. I've found a causative role, several things to do with nuts, etc. If it's a verb formation, I guess several things are possible (ignoring vowels, which at this point, seem as useful as IE ablauts).
I've found "rə-cə" and "rə-c'a" for "a grain, one small piece" and "more" respectively, ironically. č'ə for horse, something to do with "one/that day" when it has "nə" after it.
As for ba-, I found "to see, dry" and some stuff like that.
For zə, "for".
I'm gonna go with, then:
r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə, də.z.ba.jt'.
. = guess at a morpheme break.
də I presume has something to do with the 3rd person animate doing the action, z I have no clue, could also be "zba" as the root? Anyway, I'm assuming r- has some sort of morphemic value as I couldn't find the first word as a whole in the dictionary (I did find ašt-á though, as "court, yard" and "á-š'+ta(insert extra crazy letters) for "after her"). Also "št(')a" seems to have something to do with lying (at a location).
Problem is I can't find what r- should do, if anything. I've found a causative role, several things to do with nuts, etc. If it's a verb formation, I guess several things are possible (ignoring vowels, which at this point, seem as useful as IE ablauts).
I've found "rə-cə" and "rə-c'a" for "a grain, one small piece" and "more" respectively, ironically. č'ə for horse, something to do with "one/that day" when it has "nə" after it.
As for ba-, I found "to see, dry" and some stuff like that.
For zə, "for".
Christian James Meredith Looking through the grammar on Acrobat which allows me to actually search decently (Firefox is bugging up for me), I found "z" in a verb acting for "I", and "d" for "he".
Presumably, də.z.ba.jt'. = I see him
Presumably, də.z.ba.jt'. = I see him
Dago Lesmes Suagua About the morpheme break... It's 100% correct!
About the də.z.ba.jt'..... Almost correct.
The "də" means 'him/her' and it's in the 'object' position.
The "z" means 'I' and it's in the 'agent' position.
The "ba" is the root for 'to see'.
So, you got that right.
But you are not using the last "jt'", which is the morpheme that indicates which type of verb it is, and in which tense it's conjugated.
About the də.z.ba.jt'..... Almost correct.
The "də" means 'him/her' and it's in the 'object' position.
The "z" means 'I' and it's in the 'agent' position.
The "ba" is the root for 'to see'.
So, you got that right.
But you are not using the last "jt'", which is the morpheme that indicates which type of verb it is, and in which tense it's conjugated.
Christian James Meredith -c°a is a plural marker for humans.
-r- seems to be "they/them"
-d- seems to be "he/him"
-z- seems to be "I/me"
so
"they/them-_____ our friends _____ I see him"
r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə, də.z.ba.jt'.
-r- seems to be "they/them"
-d- seems to be "he/him"
-z- seems to be "I/me"
so
"they/them-_____ our friends _____ I see him"
r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə, də.z.ba.jt'.
Christian James Meredith Only other thing that stands out to me looking at the grammar is "I saw him"
Dago Lesmes Suagua About 'ašt-á', it's also correct. "Yard" is the meaning here.
"r-" is related to the idea of a third person plural, but it's not exactly they or them.
"r-" is related to the idea of a third person plural, but it's not exactly they or them.
Dago Lesmes Suagua Btw, the second 'r' morpheme is the same as the first one. I've just put it twice to emphasize the meaning.
Christian James Meredith Dago Lesmes thanks for clarifying - and yeah, I didn't know how to explain it without making it too technical for people to stjälcuri off of me without a degree in linguistics!
That's the problem with these languages, the resources, or the language itself, simply are hardcore linguistics
That's the problem with these languages, the resources, or the language itself, simply are hardcore linguistics
Dago Lesmes Suagua Well, it's Abkhaz. And we're not Circassian enough to understand this kind of languages without some technical terms, so I guess we really need them now, Christian :p
I'm really amazed at how they CAN understand when they speak to each other. It's like a linguistic tetris.
Wrik, the post you're translating is a phrase I made with the help of a book, since the song I was aiming to translate was just VERY hard. However, the second part of the original post (where I wrote an IPA transcription example of the language) is in fact the stranza I wanted to translate; so I'll post the song as a "congratulations" gift as soon as the round ends.
I'm really amazed at how they CAN understand when they speak to each other. It's like a linguistic tetris.
Wrik, the post you're translating is a phrase I made with the help of a book, since the song I was aiming to translate was just VERY hard. However, the second part of the original post (where I wrote an IPA transcription example of the language) is in fact the stranza I wanted to translate; so I'll post the song as a "congratulations" gift as soon as the round ends.
Dago Lesmes Suagua Another hint, the sentence can also be ordered like this...
də.z.ba.jt' r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə:
And now I must leave. TTYL!
də.z.ba.jt' r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə:
And now I must leave. TTYL!
Christian James Meredith "(They/them/their/to them)-yard our friends (they/them/their/to them)-(č'ə) I see/saw/am seeing (him)".
Also found out č'ə can mean swelling, tumour.
Using the new order:
də.z.ba.jt' r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə
I saw (the tumour?) of our friends in their yard? This got depressing! Are they spying into Chernobyl from atop the Caucasus mountains??
Also found out č'ə can mean swelling, tumour.
Using the new order:
də.z.ba.jt' r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə
I saw (the tumour?) of our friends in their yard?
This got depressing! Are they spying into Chernobyl from atop the Caucasus mountains??Christian James Meredith As far as I can tell though, də- is animate, so to refer to an inanimate thing like a "swelling" or a "yard" sounds incorrect. Also, it's singular, so to refer to multiple friends is also incorrect. So, now to figure out what it refers to, and what relationship the rest of the words have with this...
Wrik Chatterjee Well I found this, but it's a bit annoying to use it http://apsnyteka.org/file/Chirikba_Abkhaz.pdf .
Christian James Meredith I THINK I GOT IT!
"I saw him in our friend's yard"
(alternatively: I saw our friends in their yard?)
r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə, də.z.ba.jt'.
"I saw him in our friend's yard"
(alternatively: I saw our friends in their yard?)
r.ašta h.j°əz.c°a r.č'ə, də.z.ba.jt'.
Christian James Meredith Assuming it's correct xD Otherwise I might've completely derailed our progress!
Dago Lesmes Suagua It's awesome, the correct translation is ""I saw him/her in our friend's yard"".... Great job Christian!!!!!
Here's an Abkhaz song as your congratulations gift!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ-IV6x-QPE#t=167
Here's an Abkhaz song as your congratulations gift!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ-IV6x-QPE#t=167
Christian James Meredith WOOHOO! Dago, thanks to you I think that's the first time I've managed to have a proper attempt and understanding a Caucasian language's grammar!
Now, lemme think up a round.... (evil snickering in the background)
Now, lemme think up a round.... (evil snickering in the background)
Christian James Meredith Awesome song too. And I'm with Billy, didn't expect the phonology to sound so absorbing when you hear it spoken
Robbin Michels I was thinking of post a phrase for y'all to uncover, but I'm not the winner in Språkspelet.
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