Round 233 | Språkspelet

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Ed Blankenship Round 233:

Միայն սիրտն է սրատես։Ամենագլխավորը աչքով չես տեսնի։
Մարդիկ մոռացել են այս ճշմարտությունը, բայց դու մի՛ մոռացիր, որ հավիտյան պատասխանատու ես նրա համար, ում ընտելացրել ես։

(These are a couple of lines from my favorite book - in translation, obviously!)

Also, if you have issues with the rendering of the script here (since FB is stupid) I can screenshot it in a nicer version so it's bigger and clearer. Just let me know. And if you need resources, also just let me know. I'm not sure of everyone's familiarity level with this language.

Good luck!

Wrik Chatterjee Armenian!

Wrik Chatterjee Or are you messing with us and writing one of those Kurdish dialects written in Armenian?

Ed Blankenship No. It's actually Armenian in actual Armenian... granted which dialect is up to you.

Wrik Chatterjee God I love this script where all the letters look like <u, w, m, n, t> or <o>!

Wrik Chatterjee Does this have a locative somewhere or not?

Ed Blankenship Like does this text have a locative in it? Or does Armenian have a locative - either way, the answer is yes(ish).

Wrik Chatterjee Does this text have a locative somewhere? Might be one way to tell which dialect it is.

Ed Blankenship That's where the "ish" comes it. Um... in Classical Armenian (which this is not) there is a word in this text that could be considered locative. However in this dialect of modern, this is actually the dative (and genitive) form. Look at the verbs... they will tell you which dialect this is.

Wrik Chatterjee Okay cool

Wrik Chatterjee So far I've got something like

Only the heart is sharp-eyed; it is a master eye that can see all. People are forgetting this truth, but you shouldn't [maratsir], so that it is endlessly held responsible [hanar], who I tame.

Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I'll give it a go later after exam

Christian James Meredith (sorry to dig this up, but on the "lesser-known conlangs disarmenant *can't spell that word off the top of my head* treaty" - that round was actually rather short and quick, from my half-arsed spectator viewpoint - but for lesser known languages, we really do need to be upfront - it's too hard to guess barely known languages, natlang *or* conlang. If we had just gone with the langauge name straight off, it would've caused less of a negative reaction, IMO (if people still think conlangs, even with sufficient information, are "too hard" purely because they're conlangs, and not because of actual difficulty, thier loss then, but until then, it's very confronting to be presented with a language you know nothing about, *and* have no idea what it's called or have any information directly on hand)).

Christian James Meredith (sorry for the off-topic; TBH I can't really call myself an active player at the moment, I'm too busy or distracted with other things, but I felt like I should give my 2 cents on the subject)

Ed Blankenship Only the heart is sharp-eyed; it is a master eye that can see all. People (are forgetting this truth), but you shouldn't [maratsir], so that it is endlessly held responsible [hanar], who I tame.

You're getting there Wrik!
"are forgetting this truth" - check your tense

As far as the two words you don't know... I (AGAIN) made a typo:
maratsir should be մորացիր
hanar should be համար

Good luck!

Wrik Chatterjee Only the heart is sharp-eyed; it is a master eye that can see all. People have forgotten this truth, but you shouldn't [moratsir], so that he is endlessly held responsible for its sake, who I tame.

Still can't find մորացիր :/

Ed Blankenship Notice that it's մոռացիր and not մորացիր ... crap! It's right in the original text, but in my editing comment I typed it wrong...
I'm sorry.... I need to be more careful in this game.

Wrik Chatterjee Oh, so it's a noun put in the dative? Is that what I'm missing?

Ed Blankenship That's not a dative... check your paradigm's again... what would an -ցիր ending be?

Wrik Chatterjee Is it ablative?

Ed Blankenship No... it's not a noun. Look at the word before it. What would that tell you it is?

Wrik Chatterjee So is it the verb that the word before it is negating?

Ed Blankenship Yeah... մի՛ is the prohibitve command marker... So he's saying "Don't ...!" What is the verb that follows it?

Wrik Chatterjee It's "Don't forget!"

Ed Blankenship Yes! Now give me a translation of the whole thing!

Wrik Chatterjee Only the heart is sharp-eyed; it is a master eye that can see all. People have forgotten this truth, but you shouldn't forget, to hold it endlessly responsible for my taming.

Ed Blankenship I think somewhere in the various revisions, the ending got lost.
Check you're last clauses again. Everything seems right up until "you shouldn't forget" - after that things got messy. I think you just got confused by syntax and/or words that may look alike but have 2 different meanings depending on use.

Wrik Chatterjee I don't understand. Is the text asking the reader to follow his/her heart, to use a cliched term?

Ed Blankenship Here's a hint:
ես can be both "I" or "you are"
Also, words ending in -ել can be both infinitives or past participles.
Now look at the text again.....
բայց դու մի՛ մոռացիր, որ հավիտյան պատասխանատու ես նրա համար, ում ընտելացրել ես։

Wrik Chatterjee So it's the speaker telling the listener that s/he "tamed" him/her, in the sense that the listener has "claimed" the heart of the speaker.

Wrik Chatterjee If not, I'm running out of ideas

Ed Blankenship I honestly think you're overthinking it a bit.... I'm gonna be a teacher here and ask you to take this part of the passage and tell me what each for means (parse it if you can, if not just give a meaning).

որ հավիտյան պատասխանատու ես նրա համար, ում ընտելացրել ես։

Wrik Chatterjee The gloss I had for this part was "so that forever responsible for/answer for I/you he/it for (the sake of), who tame(d) I/you."

Ed Blankenship որ - so that (ok. I'd just say "that" but ok)
հավիտյան - forever (correct)
պատասխանատու - responsible (correct)
ես - I / you are ("you are" would make more sense, wouldn't it since he's telling him not to forget?)
նրա - he, she, it (gen.; correct)
համար - for (correct)
ում - who (.... check this again... who is nominative. this form is not nominative)
ընտելացրել - tamed (correct)
ես - I / you are (again... considering everything we've seen, what would make the most sense here?)

Wrik Chatterjee "so you are forever responsible for s/he whom you have tamed."

Ed Blankenship very good .... can I get the whole thing now?

Wrik Chatterjee Only the heart is sharp-eyed; it is a master eye that can see all. People have forgotten this truth, but you shouldn't forget, so you are forever responsible for s/he whom you have tamed.

Ed Blankenship Meh.. I don't like the "so" .. it's more of a "that" but I'll give it to you

Wrik Chatterjee Where's this from? It seems awesome!

Ed Blankenship This is the Armenian translation of a couple of my favorite lines of Le Petit Prince. These are some of the last lines between the prince and the fox and the fox is teaching him the moral of his love with the flower and what happens when you tame something.

The original French of these lines is:
On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
(and)
Les hommes ont oublié cette vérité [...] mais tu ne doit pas l'oublier. Tu deviens responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as apprivoisé.

And the English is:
One sees clearly only with the heart. Anything essential is invisible to the eyes.
(and)
People have forgotten this truth [...] But you mustn't forget it. You become responsible forever for what you've tamed.

Obviously, the Armenian is a bit different...

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