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Jake Kissinger ANNOUNCING: NEW ROUND!!!
OK, this isn't very long. It's from a sign; I'll show you the sign once you figure out the languages, because it doesn't give away anything else. It's actually bilingual. One of the languages will be easy as pie to find resources for, but the other took a while when I was looking, so once you guess the language, I'll post two dictionaries I found. Lastly, one word is a name.
Крестьянское хозяйство Губеза
Сый кан фу, ги та мәю кухуан.
OK, this isn't very long. It's from a sign; I'll show you the sign once you figure out the languages, because it doesn't give away anything else. It's actually bilingual. One of the languages will be easy as pie to find resources for, but the other took a while when I was looking, so once you guess the language, I'll post two dictionaries I found. Lastly, one word is a name.
Крестьянское хозяйство Губеза
Сый кан фу, ги та мәю кухуан.
Jake Kissinger It looks like Sarah's tag didn't go through.
Also: Brad, Zev, & Adrian.
I already tagged Vincensiu recently, but just in case you don't see that!
Also: Brad, Zev, & Adrian.
I already tagged Vincensiu recently, but just in case you don't see that!
Zev Brȹk Yeah, it's Mandarin for sure. Dungan variety, to be exact. And the first one is Russian, of course.
Christian James Meredith No tone marking? Either Dungan is the saviour we've all wanted, but don't deserve, or it doesn't matter what orthography you use in Chinese, you're always gonna have some trouble 
Jake Kissinger Here are some dictionaries, one Dungan-English and another Dungan-Russian:
http://en.glosbe.com/en/dng/
http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4107112
http://en.glosbe.com/en/dng/
http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4107112
Jake Kissinger Here's the sign, by the way:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:E8052-Chuy-Valley-Milyanfan-east.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:E8052-Chuy-Valley-Milyanfan-east.jpg
Zev Brȹk The Russian seems to say "Gubeza farm". As for Dungan, this is somewhat like Eddie's Tājiki round — not that many resources if you write it in Cyrillic, but tons when you switch to the more popular writing system. Iff the conversion can be done (and without tones, I'm guessing we're screwed).
Christian James Meredith Well, we've already done a Mandarin round where no one really knew the tones, all we had was audio, and it was a mad rush to guess characters.
I think we'll be fine
I think we'll be fine
Jake Kissinger Yeah, Dungan doesn't mark tones, usually. There actually is a system for marking tones, using the soft sign and hard sign for two of the three tones of standard Dungan, but it's usually not used.
I hope the dictionaries I found will be sufficient; if you find they are not, I apologize, & we'll see what we can do. I have the text in Chinese, too, & can use that to make some hints if necessary...
Zev's right about the Russian, BTW.
I hope the dictionaries I found will be sufficient; if you find they are not, I apologize, & we'll see what we can do. I have the text in Chinese, too, & can use that to make some hints if necessary...
Zev's right about the Russian, BTW.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Крестьянское = farmer??
хозяйство = factory machine??
Губеза = Name??
Note that in the picture, they abbreviate the two first words into K/x.
хозяйство = factory machine??
Губеза = Name??
Note that in the picture, they abbreviate the two first words into K/x.
Zev Brȹk Vincensiu, I already translated the Russian (see my comment above). The hard part is the Dungan.
Wrik Chatterjee Btw Jake, it's probably much easier to find resources for Russian than it is for PIE .
.Wrik Chatterjee I also found this, but I don't know how useful it will be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillization_of_Chinese
Jake Kissinger I don't think your link will be much help, Wrik; the Palladius system is different from the Dungan alphabet.
Jake Kissinger I believe the dots on the sign are to separate words, Brad; кан, ги, & та are all there in full. The text I have has the abbreviation fleshed out & a spelling correction in the last word, with capitalization & spacing, too.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Has Andy A been tagged?
Haven't seen him from a while. He's usually an expert in Cryptic languages
Haven't seen him from a while. He's usually an expert in Cryptic languages
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I did look up Dungan language on youtube and it's has got many similarities to standard Mandarin.
Сый = who??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4hgBu8osu4
Сый = who??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4hgBu8osu4
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I'm wondering if мәю =沒有
not sure how to pronounce the second Cyrillic character :S
For some reason I can't finish listening to the youtube recording of the Dungan.... I found it irritating after a while
not sure how to pronounce the second Cyrillic character :S
For some reason I can't finish listening to the youtube recording of the Dungan.... I found it irritating after a while
Christian James Meredith Vincensiu I mean, when you expect one tone from a word, but hear another - Dungan has different tone values to Mandarin, with different contours etc. So perhaps it's throwing you?
Jake Kissinger 他/她 is right, Vincensiu, but 看 is not. Getting фу will really help you with кан. The Pinyin kan is right, but the pinyin for фу has a different initial in standard Mandarin.
Jake Kissinger Were my dictionaries any help, or are you all just trying to go from Dungan to Standard Mandarin? If the latter is the case, here's what you should know. Among the syllables Vincensiu has not yet deciphered, there are 3 cases of the Standard Mandarin pinyin differing from what you would expect its correspond abc to be in Dungan. I mentioned that фу had a different initial; all the other initials you would expect. 2 vowels in those remaining 3 syllables are diphthongs in Standard Mandarin. Everything else is what you'd expect.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter I haven't tried your resources unfortunately. I'm relying on the youtube video plus a lil bit of intuition. I'm doing some work atm and going to bed in about 2 hours, so I shall continue my attempt tomorrow, unless someone solve this round before me.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Another attempt:
ги = 给?
I only know 2 Mandarin words that sounds like /khan/
one is to look (you said it was wrong), the other one is to chop... so,
кан = 砍 ?
I'm ran out of resources, and my lack of knowledge in Russian doesn't help at all. So my last resort is comparing Dungan blog (http://cooey.org/mi/%E7%A4%BC%E8%A1%8C) that has been translated into Mandarin, and try to find a match. kinda sad :p
ги = 给?
I only know 2 Mandarin words that sounds like /khan/
one is to look (you said it was wrong), the other one is to chop... so,
кан = 砍 ?
I'm ran out of resources, and my lack of knowledge in Russian doesn't help at all. So my last resort is comparing Dungan blog (http://cooey.org/mi/%E7%A4%BC%E8%A1%8C) that has been translated into Mandarin, and try to find a match. kinda sad :p
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Good, so only фу & кухуан left.
Who chop ( фу ), give him no ( кухуан )..... Hmmm....
Well, I shall go to bed now, and will check it again later when I wake up.
Who chop ( фу ), give him no ( кухуан )..... Hmmm....
Well, I shall go to bed now, and will check it again later when I wake up.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Ah how stupid I am,
砍木!! Ok so now кухуан, I can't frecall any Mandarin word that sounds like it. Well, my Mandarin is not that good though
砍木!! Ok so now кухуан, I can't frecall any Mandarin word that sounds like it. Well, my Mandarin is not that good though
Jake Kissinger Not 木，mù，actually, though you have the right idea. 谁砍木 would be "whosoever cuts down wood," so that's not exactly right; what would it be, then?
Jake Kissinger Vincensiu was closer; the correct word actually contains 木 as a radical in its character form.
Wrik Chatterjee And is the <x>, which probably refers to [x], supposed to be there; is it an idiosyncratic difference found in Dungan but not necessarily in Beijing Mandarin?
Jake Kissinger Nope; there's no plural, and in fact the translation here is "trees." I suppose it would be possible that the writer of the sign doesn't want one particular tree chopped down, but that is not the case here.
OK, we're pretty far along. The last word might be the trickiest.
OK, we're pretty far along. The last word might be the trickiest.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter well logically, it'll make sense if it's :
Whoever chops down tree he will be given fine/punishment.
Whoever chops down tree he will be given fine/punishment.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Whoever chops down tree he will be given no permission.
Rewording:
No permission given to whoever chops down the tree
Rewording:
No permission given to whoever chops down the tree
Jake Kissinger I didn't expect it to be reached by guessing; permission was a good guess, Vincensiu, but the translation is "forgiveness." The source I got it from says ""кухуан" is a key concept with religious overtones. Its basic meaning is "permission", but it also shades over into "blessing" and has the additional senses of "forgiveness" and "will" (as in "God's will"). I am somewhat uncertain about the character version 口唤. The message is quite strong: if you cut down trees here, you will never be forgiven, perhaps not even in the life hereafter." Since being lenient pretty much means being willing to forgive, I'd say that Wrik's translation wins. Congratulations!
Jake Kissinger Here's the source; see the comment by Ivo Spira.
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4578
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4578
Anna Robbins Hello there xD Sorry for my long absence; I've been unfortunately swamped with affairs. I've been stalking the round, so congratulations to Wrik ! I'll participate next whenever I get free time, but I'll be watching the rounds with interest 
Wrik Chatterjee Oh hey, I won! I'm debating on whether to do my round in something Dravidian or Northeast Caucasian, since they're both families that are yet to be seen on our beloved Sprogspelet.
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Wrik, please post a complete translation for the tagging purposes, including the Russian part, and I guess it's pretty much the time for a new thread.
Wrik Chatterjee Okay. To finish this off:
Gubeza farm. Whoever cuts down trees will be given no leniency.
Gubeza farm. Whoever cuts down trees will be given no leniency.
Jake Kissinger That's interesting, Vincensiu. I'm sorry the dictionary I provided didn't give you the answer I was looking for, but since, in this case, "given no permission" doesn't make as much sense, and since the source says forgiveness, I'm going to still have to go with Wrik's translation.
Jake Kissinger Whichever you do, do it in the orthography! That would make Dravidian languages look really cool, but Caucasus Cyrillic is awesome, as well, with all its extra letters.
Wrik Chatterjee வணக்கம், Здравствуйте, räxim itegez, and welcome to the 24th thread of our beloved Sprogspelet! As duly noted by Vincensiu, I have managed to escape the clutches of the Easter Bunny to give you this. Sprogspelet, of course, is the game found only on the Omniglot Fan Club where we try to decipher phrases in other languages based on what can be interpolated inside, extrapolated from comparison, or learned from dictionaries and/or grammars, WITHOUT using Google Translate! This game was started by Malin Elisabeth Nilsson, our wise benefactress and guardian angel who hath bestowed upon us mere mortals her idea for this game. For more details to the rules or the history of this game, check out the website for it started by the Great Arief Wibowo: http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/
And now to tag all citizens, residents, and frequent visitors of the great state of Sveindonesia: Billy, Victor, Christian, Maleen, Дайте, Zeke, Zev, Dago, Anna, Helene, Andy, Jake, Thatcher, Eddie, Justyna, and four or five people whom the system would not let me tag.
And now to tag all citizens, residents, and frequent visitors of the great state of Sveindonesia: Billy, Victor, Christian, Maleen, Дайте, Zeke, Zev, Dago, Anna, Helene, Andy, Jake, Thatcher, Eddie, Justyna, and four or five people whom the system would not let me tag.
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