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Ed Blankenship NEW ROUND! NEW ROUND! NEW ROUND!
Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс, –
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн;
Мæ уындмæ мын ма кæс,
Нæ бæззын чызгæн.
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I'll post some resources that I have online once the language is guessed.
Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс, –
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн;
Мæ уындмæ мын ма кæс,
Нæ бæззын чызгæн.
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I'll post some resources that I have online once the language is guessed.
Brad Wilson I'm looking for the digraph æ in various Cyrillic keyboards, and Ossetic seems the likely choice. Although plugging some of these words into an online Ossetic dict that I found yields nothing. 
Ed Blankenship Yes... it's Ossetic.
Here are some resources I have... Pay attention mostly to "Parlons Ossète" (if you speak French) and the Russian dictionary.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1yDygSQ1yHCZ0xFMWZPcWpmZDg&usp=sharing
Here are some resources I have... Pay attention mostly to "Parlons Ossète" (if you speak French) and the Russian dictionary.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1yDygSQ1yHCZ0xFMWZPcWpmZDg&usp=sharing
Brad Wilson I've found the folowing: фæрс (ask) мæ (me/my) лæг (man/husband) нæ (we/our) чызг (daughter) -æн (dat.sg.) -мæ (allative.sg) -æй (ablative.sg) ... I've never heard of the allative case before.
Ed Blankenship So... all of those words are correct (though "daughter" might be better as "girl" here).
So... the allative in Ossetian functions kinda like the dative (mostly in the fact that it's often translated in English as 'to' or 'for'). It's specifically for direction, direction 'toward', time (duration), and destination. It can also be used (like the dative) to create possesion (lit. 'to me there is ...').
All of the words, though, should be in a dictionary. The ones that weren't in 'Parlons Ossète' were in my Russian-Ossetian dict app on iPad... so I'm figuring the Russian dictionary in that folder should have them as well (since I'm pretty sure it's a nicer dictionary than the app's). The hardest part here will be figuring out case (which you've done well on so far) and the few conjugated verbs here.
So... the allative in Ossetian functions kinda like the dative (mostly in the fact that it's often translated in English as 'to' or 'for'). It's specifically for direction, direction 'toward', time (duration), and destination. It can also be used (like the dative) to create possesion (lit. 'to me there is ...').
All of the words, though, should be in a dictionary. The ones that weren't in 'Parlons Ossète' were in my Russian-Ossetian dict app on iPad... so I'm figuring the Russian dictionary in that folder should have them as well (since I'm pretty sure it's a nicer dictionary than the app's). The hardest part here will be figuring out case (which you've done well on so far) and the few conjugated verbs here.
Brad Wilson Ossetic seems to be agglutinative, so I tried shorter & shorter versions of the words hoping to arrive at the roots, but many just weren't there. I was using this http://en.glosbe.com/en/os/
Ed Blankenship Ossetic's not agglutinative (though people on Wikipedia like to think so... )...
Did you check the dictionary that I posted?
What words are you struggling with? Maybe I can help
Did you check the dictionary that I posted?
What words are you struggling with? Maybe I can help
Marius Vincenzii Dennischter Now that I have a bit of time, I'm lack of computer access.
Ossetian huh? Hmm let's see what I can do.
Ossetian huh? Hmm let's see what I can do.
Ed Blankenship My family : correct, but notice the case on 'family'
not ask : literally, it's ok. but what mood/tense is this? the ма tells a lot here.
polite : correct
husband : this is accurate, but not in this context... there's another meaning for the word
our : while нӕ can mean "our" it also has a VERY different meaning that's very important, especially considering the next word
дӕн : I'll give you a hint here - this is a conjugated verb... Check the verb section of 'Parlons Ossète' if you can... you should be able to find it there (I think)
So... overall
... My family {not ask},
Polite {husband} [our] дæH ...
Good so far!
not ask : literally, it's ok. but what mood/tense is this? the ма tells a lot here.
polite : correct
husband : this is accurate, but not in this context... there's another meaning for the word
our : while нӕ can mean "our" it also has a VERY different meaning that's very important, especially considering the next word
дӕн : I'll give you a hint here - this is a conjugated verb... Check the verb section of 'Parlons Ossète' if you can... you should be able to find it there (I think)
So... overall
... My family {not ask},
Polite {husband} [our] дæH ...
Good so far!
Sarah Karoline Ed
Could "бæззын" be "suitable", "ма" is "more/yet/still" and "Уæздан " is "noble" (or "thanked")?
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Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс = My family still ask
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн = I am not noble.
Нæ бæззын чызгæн = Girls are not suitable.
Could "бæззын" be "suitable", "ма" is "more/yet/still" and "Уæздан " is "noble" (or "thanked")?
---
Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс = My family still ask
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн = I am not noble.
Нæ бæззын чызгæн = Girls are not suitable.
Ed Blankenship бæззын means "suitable" but it's a verb... so better as "to be suitable" - figure out what form ends in -ын.
ма - no... that's still not it. If you're looking at "Parlons Ossète" check page 136 in the middle section.
Уæздан - noble is correct here. (The word can mean honorable too, but both work in this context.
... My family [still] ask
I am not ... ... noble.
.................
... Girl[s] [are] not suitable.
Line 1: Check the case of Мыггагæй again... and try and figure out ма
Line 2: This is good except you forgot to translate an entire word (and the implied article with it)
Line 3: Missing
Line 4: Check the number and case of чызгæн and again try and figure out what form of the verb бæззын is.
Good job so far... I know this isn't easy.
I think if you and Brad pull together, you can probably get this!
ма - no... that's still not it. If you're looking at "Parlons Ossète" check page 136 in the middle section.
Уæздан - noble is correct here. (The word can mean honorable too, but both work in this context.
... My family [still] ask
I am not ... ... noble.
.................
... Girl[s] [are] not suitable.
Line 1: Check the case of Мыггагæй again... and try and figure out ма
Line 2: This is good except you forgot to translate an entire word (and the implied article with it)
Line 3: Missing
Line 4: Check the number and case of чызгæн and again try and figure out what form of the verb бæззын is.
Good job so far... I know this isn't easy.
I think if you and Brad pull together, you can probably get this!
Ed Blankenship I know мыггаг is "family" or "family name" ... As I read it, мыггагӕй is a declined form of it in a certain case...
Ed Blankenship The expression мыггагæй-мыггамæ means from generation to generation. But if you look up just the base form "мыггаг", I get род, племя; фамилия; семя.... So... I understand the translation of "generation". However, in my textbook when I lookup "мыггаг", I get "nom(s) de famille, famille". I don't know if I would translate it as "family" since there is another word for family in Ossetian (бинонтӕ) though it literally translates as "relatives".
So... I'm not sure if generation makes sense in this paragraph (since - and I'll give you the context - it's from a poem titled "Who are you?")... I would probably stick to "family name" or something like that for now...
So... I'm not sure if generation makes sense in this paragraph (since - and I'll give you the context - it's from a poem titled "Who are you?")... I would probably stick to "family name" or something like that for now...
Brad Wilson Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс ... Мыггаг is ablative, ма is negative imperative (I think), so ... from my family do not ask
Brad Wilson Нæ бæззын чызгæн ... чызг is dative, -ын seems to be present tense, so ... I am not suitable for the girl (?)
Ed Blankenship Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс - from my family do not ask
I'd say this is correct. I was always translating it as "of" (considering the context) but from would also be correct, though it changes meaning in English.
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн - I am not a noble man
Yes! "Honorable" is also good. But "noble" works well, too.
Нæ бæззын чызгæн - I am not suitable for the girl
The only thing here is that definiteness is marked in Ossetian usually by modified word order. This is standard word order. Additionally, I think the context would dictate indefinite here...
Good job so far!
Now what about the 3rd line?
I'd say this is correct. I was always translating it as "of" (considering the context) but from would also be correct, though it changes meaning in English.
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн - I am not a noble man
Yes! "Honorable" is also good. But "noble" works well, too.
Нæ бæззын чызгæн - I am not suitable for the girl
The only thing here is that definiteness is marked in Ossetian usually by modified word order. This is standard word order. Additionally, I think the context would dictate indefinite here...
Good job so far!
Now what about the 3rd line?
Sarah Karoline For some reason, I didn't get notifications of these messages last night. I'm at work at the moment, but it looks like Brad and Vincensiu will have completed it by the time I return home 
Wrik Chatterjee Omigod omigod Ossetian! I love the Caucasus so much! Can we have a summary of what is known?
Brad Wilson Wrik, this is a summary:
Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс - from/of my family do not ask
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн - I am not a noble/honourable man
Мæ уындмæ мын ма кæс - (not translated yet)
Нæ бæззын чызгæн - I am not suitable for a girl
Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс - from/of my family do not ask
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн - I am not a noble/honourable man
Мæ уындмæ мын ма кæс - (not translated yet)
Нæ бæззын чызгæн - I am not suitable for a girl
Brad Wilson 3rd line - ма кæс (do not see/look) уындмæ (this is allative case, but I don't know the root уынд)
Дайте Нефть Из Баку Logged in to take a look at this Ossetian round, found myself adding random terms to the Sweindo vocabulary. Sorry, guys.
Ed Blankenship Sorry. My birthday sad this weekend so I got a big distracted. Brad's last translation was good. I'm waiting for someone to come forward with the meaning of уынд
Sarah Karoline I've done a few searches over the last few days in Google. Two days ago I found "on" as a translation, but that looks wrong. A few minutes ago, I came across "glory".
My glory - not -
My glory - not -
Brad Wilson уын (be) уынг (street) уынын (see) I found уынд listed under уынын, under the column основа прошедшего времени (whatever that means) ... so I think it's related to seeing or sight somehow
Ed Blankenship That it is. It's a noun (obviously from the fact it's declined). It's not "sight" more... It can be "what you see" or "what people see of you"
Brad Wilson уындмæ is declined allative (which I think is towards a location), so I'm having a tough time thinking what the root might be
Ed Blankenship Ok... not that close... but like... think of it more of like... "what people see of you" ... or "how you see yourself" - physically that is
Ed Blankenship it's like impression... but physical... or like... reflection... what is it a reflection of?
Ed Blankenship no.... I'm like not sure what else to say without like translating it for you (in english or another langauge)
I'm like not sure what else to say without like translating it for you (in english or another langauge)Brad Wilson Is it listed in one of your online dictionaries? I thought I looked thru them all and didn't see it exactly (except that it's related to уынын
Ed Blankenship Just google уынд and there'sa memrise flashcard that comes up... it has the russian word but then just like translate that on wordreference or smoething
Wrik Chatterjee It's translated as вид, which Wiktionary defines as "sight, kind, or aspect." Given that it's allative, that would be "towards sight," "towards kind/type," or "towards aspect."
Ed Blankenship So... since you've gotten view/sight... I will correct you and say that уынд can also mean "appearance" which I think works a bit better here...
Ed Blankenship Literally it means "towards" but again.. this is poetry and it's probably best translated as "at" here
Brad Wilson мын is still untranslated ... and it's "towards my appearance" ... since I'm not suitable for a girl, perhaps my appearance is ugly ;-p
Brad Wilson This is the summary:
Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс - from/of my family do not ask
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн - I am not a noble/honourable man
Мæ уындмæ мын ма кæс - towards/at my appearance (?) do not look
Нæ бæззын чызгæн - I am not suitable for a girl
Мыггагæй мæ ма фæрс - from/of my family do not ask
Уæздан лæг нæ дæн - I am not a noble/honourable man
Мæ уындмæ мын ма кæс - towards/at my appearance (?) do not look
Нæ бæззын чызгæн - I am not suitable for a girl
Wrik Chatterjee Well then that's a little weird. He's using forms to address somebody but then it isn't too clear who.
Ed Blankenship I think he's just addressing the reader here Wrik.
And Brad- that's really good... I should just give it to you and explain that question mark... What do you think?
And Brad- that's really good... I should just give it to you and explain that question mark... What do you think?
Wrik Chatterjee Word-smithing that, this might be something like
"Do not ask my family (for me).
I am not an honorable man.
Do not look at my face.
I am unsuitable for a girl."
"Do not ask my family (for me).
I am not an honorable man.
Do not look at my face.
I am unsuitable for a girl."
Brad Wilson whatever his appearance is, it makes him unsuitable ... so I'm thinking ugly, messy, sloppy, unkempt, etc
Ed Blankenship Yeah... actually the мын isn't necessary to translate here. Ossetian can be quite redundant (for English-speaker standards)... so it's literally "At my appearance, do not look at me." but you would just translate it as "Do not look at my appearance."
In this last translation, I actually take issue with your first line...
In this last translation, I actually take issue with your first line...
Brad Wilson Of my family, do not ask
I am not an honourable man
At my appearance, do not look
I am not suitable for a girl
I am not an honourable man
At my appearance, do not look
I am not suitable for a girl
Wrik Chatterjee Is there something else going on grammatically with the speaker's request with respect to his family?
Ed Blankenship CONGRATULATIONS Brad!!! YOU'VE DONE IT!!!!
LADIES AND GENTS, I think we have our winner!
LADIES AND GENTS, I think we have our winner!
Ed Blankenship Brad's translation is really good (even poetic)... the only thing I'd add, for logic's sake would be
"Of my family, do not ask
For I am not an honorable man.
At my appearance, do not look,
For I am not suitable for a girl."
But there isn't any sort of linking word in these lines... that's just something I'd add if I were to translate this stanza from Khetagurov.
"Of my family, do not ask
For I am not an honorable man.
At my appearance, do not look,
For I am not suitable for a girl."
But there isn't any sort of linking word in these lines... that's just something I'd add if I were to translate this stanza from Khetagurov.
Ed Blankenship Yep! ... My goal is to be able to read him within a year... but we'll see how that goes...
Brad Wilson WOW, now I have to think of a language ... I don't have many - I've already done Choctaw (people are cringing) and Manx. I could do French, but that's so pedestrian 
Let me think on this for a bit ...
Let me think on this for a bit ...Wrik Chatterjee You could do Choctaw. I mean, we already have the resources for it, and I think the only trouble is digging them out again.
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