Round 58 | Språkspelet

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Arief Wibowo Incoming Pāḷi...
* mā takkahetu
* mā nayahetu

Arief Wibowo (I almost went for "mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā", the longest compound word in this section of Tipitaka, but I don't understand the parts

)

Christian James Meredith me (something), me (something)?

Arief Wibowo mā != me

To put in perspective, it's known as "The Buddha's Charter of Free Inquiry"

Christian James Meredith d'oh! I might let another take a crack at it then!

Arief Wibowo Christian James Meredith Okay

Billy James Brightraven Does it mean not? I am looking at a Sanskrit text trying to get a hint

Arief Wibowo Billy James Brightraven: correct

Billy James Brightraven so,

not [takkahetu], not [nayahetu]

This Sanskrit page I found gives hetu as "cause" as in the compound kṛṣṇa-sukha-hetu = for the happiness of Krishna and also as 'reason' : "kṛṣṇa-kṛpā-ādi-hetu — the reason of Kṛṣṇa's mercy;"

And since Sanskrit is related to Pāli might hetu means something similar/the same?

Not for takka-cause, not for naya-cause?

Sounds very Buddha-y at least!

Arief Wibowo Not exactly "not", but I guess we can tweak that after solving the nouns.

Correct, hetu means reason

Yeap, and this is my most favorite part of Buddha-y stuffs

Akshay Kumar Arief, "For no money, no justice?"

Arief Wibowo Sorry, Akshay Kumar, not that

Arief Wibowo Btw, I should clarify, mā takkahetu and mā nayahetu are not affecting each other, they are list items.. So I guess I should rewrite it as:
* mā takkahetu
* mā nayahetu

Arief Wibowo Special invitation for Maleen Schlüter, the champion of my Sanskrit round in the first thread

Camelia Stefan I found out that this is Buddha's reply (?)
* don't be led by reason
* don't be led by deduction

Arief Wibowo Camelia Stefan, though I can accept the 2nd one (deduction), the 1st one it's oversimplified (because hetu itself means reason, takka still needs translation)

Taken in that context, yes, mā means 'don't be led by', but mā itself means not/don't/never

Camelia Stefan takka - the science of logic?

Arief Wibowo Yes, takka means logic, how did you guess that along with "the science of"?

Arief Wibowo And yes, Camelia Stefan wins this round

Camelia Stefan Well, it was either that or 'butter-milk'

here http://www.metta.lk/english/Stella/Stella-Uno-nessuno-e-centomila.html

Billy James Brightraven So the general admonition is to not to be led by a cause of (only?) logic and not to be led a cause of (only) deduction? Cool, cool, cool.

Arief Wibowo The full quote in Pāḷi is:
Etha tumhe, kālāmā, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena , mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti. Yadā tumhe, kālāmā, attanāva jāneyyātha – ‘ime dhammā akusalā, ime dhammā sāvajjā, ime dhammā viññugarahitā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā [samādiṇṇā (ka.)] ahitāya dukkhāya saṃvattantī’
(http://www.tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/s0402m2.mul6.xml)

Maleen Schlüter Thanks for the invitation

I am too late but I'll follow this thread now.

Camelia Stefan Interesting teachings

Arief Wibowo The list of things Buddha told the Kalamas (a tribe of people) to doubt/question (not to blindly believe in): mā anussavena (oral history), mā paramparāya (tradition), mā itikirāya (anecdotal evidence), mā piṭakasampadānena (what's written in scriptures/texts), mā takkahetu (logical reasoning), mā nayahetu (deduction), mā ākāraparivitakkena (common sense), mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā (personal opinion), mā bhabbarūpatāya (experts), mā samaṇo no garūti (authorities).

Arief Wibowo Which is interesting, because it also means you shouldn't believe in what I just quoted because it's written in a scripture which came from Buddha (authority/expert)

Billy James Brightraven Well, it's good to question everything, yes!

Arief Wibowo Billy James Brightraven, yes, for example, we should now question this:
Camelia Stefan, what's our next sentence?

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