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Billy James Brightraven I was going to give you some Russian rock/Finnish metal if you had gone with the other but since you chose Italic ( 
) and Latin is too mainstream, I present you this!
“Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
Remember, Oscan often has p- where Latin has qu-
(similar to P/Q-Celtic)
Disclaimer: Oscan is dead, like super dead and I might have written something incorrectly somewhere. Sorry if I did
) and Latin is too mainstream, I present you this!“Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
Remember, Oscan often has p- where Latin has qu-
(similar to P/Q-Celtic)Disclaimer: Oscan is dead, like super dead and I might have written something incorrectly somewhere. Sorry if I did
Billy James Brightraven For more motivation:
“Oscan had much in common with Latin, though there are also many striking differences, and many common word-groups in Latin were absent or represented by entirely different forms.”
Huehuehuehuehue.
“Oscan had much in common with Latin, though there are also many striking differences, and many common word-groups in Latin were absent or represented by entirely different forms.”
Huehuehuehuehue.
Billy James Brightraven I have to say, I had forgotten this about it “Oscan is considered the most conservative of all the known Italic languages, and among attested Indo-European languages it is rivaled only by Greek in the retention of the inherited vowel system with the diphthongs intact.”
which is pretty badass.
which is pretty badass.
Дайте Нефть Из Баку More information: ú is pronounced as /o/ and í as /ẹ/. So, for example, "íst" is pronounced as /ẹst/ and could be related to Latin "est" (is).
Billy James Brightraven And for the people who know Proto-Indo-European well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italic_languages#Proto-Italic language features might be of some help
Дайте Нефть Из Баку "Alttram" and "alttrús" are definitely related to "alter" (other). Feminine and neuter gender respectively, I'd say.
Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström I'm sorry, but I have to go. :/ However, I do have a few tricks up my sleeve..!
Christian James Meredith I'm so tempted to work back from Indo-European/Italic, since that's one of the things I enjoy, but I need to get stuck into my HW.. 
Дайте Нефть Из Баку So far:
If a treasure [quod?] [eseí] on earth is, [quod?] open/uncover, [múíníkad] [tanginúd] open/uncover, [íním] [quid?] [eíseí] a/the treasure [púkkapíd] [eestit = which exists?] [aíttíúm] other (fem.) other (neut.) [herríns].
If a treasure [quod?] [eseí] on earth is, [quod?] open/uncover, [múíníkad] [tanginúd] open/uncover, [íním] [quid?] [eíseí] a/the treasure [púkkapíd] [eestit = which exists?] [aíttíúm] other (fem.) other (neut.) [herríns].
Дайте Нефть Из Баку Oh, wait:
If [there] is a treasure on THAT land/territory, which [they? You? Me?] uncover, [múíníkad] [tanginúd] uncover, [íním] [quid?] that treasure [púkkapíd] [eestit] [aíttíúm] other (fem.) other (neut.) [herríns].
And now I'm going to do a little trick! The fingers are quicker than the eye!
Múíníkad = múíni-kad = múíni = mo/unis = com-mo/unis = common?
If [there] is a treasure on THAT land/territory, which [they? You? Me?] uncover, [múíníkad] [tanginúd] uncover, [íním] [quid?] that treasure [púkkapíd] [eestit] [aíttíúm] other (fem.) other (neut.) [herríns].
And now I'm going to do a little trick! The fingers are quicker than the eye!
Múíníkad = múíni-kad = múíni = mo/unis = com-mo/unis = common?
Дайте Нефть Из Баку No, that's called "fumbling around, yelling at reminiscences of Latin language and literature to come back and fight". I recall having seen something like this in high school but can't remember the context.
Arief Wibowo múíníkad could be related to the name Monica?
According to Wiktionary, it might come from Ancient Greek μόνος/mónos (meaning "alone") or Latin moneō (meaning "I advise")
According to Wiktionary, it might come from Ancient Greek μόνος/mónos (meaning "alone") or Latin moneō (meaning "I advise")
Дайте Нефть Из Баку Dammit, I hoped someone would solve more of the riddle while I was away. I must admit I'm kind of stuck at this point.
Arief Wibowo Дайте Нефть Из Баку, at least you did a great job for múíníkad
múíníkad - communi - common (nom.pl.)
http://www.wordgumbo.com/ie/cmp/osca.htm
múíníkad - communi - common (nom.pl.)
http://www.wordgumbo.com/ie/cmp/osca.htm
Arief Wibowo So the first 3 parts might be:
If [there] is a treasure on THAT land/territory, which they uncover(ed), (it is by) common opinion uncovered
If [there] is a treasure on THAT land/territory, which they uncover(ed), (it is by) common opinion uncovered
Arief Wibowo Since I am stuck at this Oscan sentence, I spent some time perfecting the bot to download our history from facebook (coming soon at http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/history/ )
Fun fact, up till Språkspelet III, we have:
* 3,117 posts (counting the starting post + all comments)
* 42 players
Fun fact, up till Språkspelet III, we have:
* 3,117 posts (counting the starting post + all comments)
* 42 players
Billy James Brightraven Reposting current challenge:
“Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
in Oscan, an extinct Italic language.
“Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
in Oscan, an extinct Italic language.
Arief Wibowo While this round is still stagnant, there has been a lot* of new stuffs at our History page
* just 2
* just 2
Christian James Meredith You're gonna hate me Arief... But...
Could we divide up the threads by any chance in the history, and put some anchor links in up the top to the start? ~3000 posts is a bit hard to get through at once!
Could we divide up the threads by any chance in the history, and put some anchor links in up the top to the start? ~3000 posts is a bit hard to get through at once!
Arief Wibowo Christian James Meredith, I will make another page for the properly paged-one later on. The current Posts page will make it easy for me to pull my "brb, let me consult the Språkspelet history" stunt
Arief Wibowo Merged latest guesses/hints:
If (there) is a treasure in that land/territory, which they would uncover, common opinion they would uncover, [íním] [quid?] that treasure [púkkapíd] [eestit] [aíttíúm] other (fem.) other (neut.) [herríns].
If (there) is a treasure in that land/territory, which they would uncover, common opinion they would uncover, [íním] [quid?] that treasure [púkkapíd] [eestit] [aíttíúm] other (fem.) other (neut.) [herríns].
Christian James Meredith Elizabeth Bruinsma-van Oers, if you speak the language fluently, it might be a bit unfair since the idea is for non-speakers to guess it, but if you only have some working knowledge, then I say, join in!
The main goal is that the game just flows nicely after all.
The main goal is that the game just flows nicely after all.
Arief Wibowo Sure, Elizabeth, generally our (unwritten) rule about this is: if you are "advantaged" (you know the meaning to the sentence), you can only join as co-moderator and hint-giver (it would be a bit unfair to win the round with advantage ) - otherwise, guess away!
Whichever category you fall into, we welcome you to the game, may you enjoy your stay!
) - otherwise, guess away!Whichever category you fall into, we welcome you to the game, may you enjoy your stay!
Elizabeth Bruinsma-van Oers Ah, well, the thesis was about phonology and commentaries on eituns and iuvilu inscriptions...is that working knowledge or advanced?
Christian James Meredith Reposting Billy's repost:
"Reposting current challenge:
“Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
in Oscan, an extinct Italic language."
"Reposting current challenge:
“Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
in Oscan, an extinct Italic language."
Christian James Meredith Working knowledge (in my experience) just means you know how the language works (degree of knowledge could vary) but you just can't use it (e.g. you don't know any/enough words).
Дайте Нефть Из Баку You're a miracle worker, Arief.
If [there] is a treasure on THAT land/territory, which [they? You? Me?] uncover, [and] [they?] uncover it by common/public disposition/order, everything that is in that treasure [and is] not [of] other[s?], they [must?] other [herríns].
Now I'm going to do another magic trick: herríns = ferunt = they bring?
If [there] is a treasure on THAT land/territory, which [they? You? Me?] uncover, [and] [they?] uncover it by common/public disposition/order, everything that is in that treasure [and is] not [of] other[s?], they [must?] other [herríns].
Now I'm going to do another magic trick: herríns = ferunt = they bring?
Elizabeth Bruinsma-van Oers Not enough Oscan words are left to use it at all...and -ns is the 3rd plural present ending. íním = Latin 'enim'.
Elizabeth Bruinsma-van Oers OK, both kids asleep, time for an attempt: 'However, any treasure in this territory/land, which they uncover, they (should) uncover by public order, since whatever is in this treasure, they (should) take a different part for another.' ???? The same as what Дайте Нефть Из Баку said.
Billy James Brightraven You're all getting closer I'd suggest not translating it as "public order" though, if you look up tangin-, tangineis (in text: tanginúd) you might find that it makes a tad more sense.
Hint 2: Also,to better understand múínikad tanginúd, I really really strongly suggest going case analysing :p
I'd suggest not translating it as "public order" though, if you look up tangin-, tangineis (in text: tanginúd) you might find that it makes a tad more sense. Hint 2: Also,to better understand múínikad tanginúd, I really really strongly suggest going case analysing :p
Billy James Brightraven Yup, good ol' ablative. Oscan seems to be like Latin and has no issue putting words in ablative without any preposition to mean certain things… :p
Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström I have returned.
Avt - at
púd - qui
pún - cum
patensíns - aperirent - they were to uncover
múíníkad - communal
píd - quid(quid)
herríns - caperent - they were to take
púkkapíd - quandoquid
eestit - exstat
Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.
Also, any treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be commonly realised that sometimes there stands out a portion the other side wishes to have.
Avt - at
púd - qui
pún - cum
patensíns - aperirent - they were to uncover
múíníkad - communal
píd - quid(quid)
herríns - caperent - they were to take
púkkapíd - quandoquid
eestit - exstat
Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.
Also, any treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be commonly realised that sometimes there stands out a portion the other side wishes to have.
Billy James Brightraven Close, but no cigar, Victor! Your translation adds a bit of fluff where there ought to be none and glosses certain words a bit off, but the gist is there… somewhat. Nice job tho
Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström Well, I'm no Latinist! Or Oscanist!
Also, any treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be in the common knowledge that there stands out a portion the other wishes to have?
Or Oscanist!Also, any treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be in the common knowledge that there stands out a portion the other wishes to have?
Billy James Brightraven Nyah, "it ought to be in the common knowledge" is pretty off, and there's no desiring being done in the second part as well from what I can tell from my bilingual Latin-Oscan text source.
Furthermore, it's actually quite simple, rustic "wisdom" so try not to overthink it, which I suspect you might be doing a tad
It's quite laconic to be honest
Furthermore, it's actually quite simple, rustic "wisdom" so try not to overthink it, which I suspect you might be doing a tad
It's quite laconic to be honest
Дайте Нефть Из Баку Also, any treasure in this land/territory that they are to uncover, by common opinion, if it doesn't belong to [a certain side] they must give it to the other [side].
If my understanding is correct, alttram and alttrús refer to two bordering provinces (two sides other than the ones who uncover the treasure). So if you find something in a certain portion of land you must check whether it belongs to one province or the other.
If my understanding is correct, alttram and alttrús refer to two bordering provinces (two sides other than the ones who uncover the treasure). So if you find something in a certain portion of land you must check whether it belongs to one province or the other.
Дайте Нефть Из Баку Unrelated: Victor, I need to send you a private message but I can't because of your settings.
Billy James Brightraven Ohohoho, Дайте gets closer and closer! I wouldn't say "any" treasure and for "avt" you're all still sort of missing it a tad.
"By common opinion" is great! You're just forgetting patensíns
"By common opinion" is great! You're just forgetting patensíns
Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström And, any treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be by common opinion uncovered, that that which stands out, the others would take a share of.
Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström För i helv....!
But a treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be by common opinion uncovered, that of that which stands out, the others would take a share.
But a treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be by common opinion uncovered, that of that which stands out, the others would take a share.
Дайте Нефть Из Баку Yet, if the treasure is uncovered in this land then, by common opinion, if it doesn't belong to those who uncovered it, it should be given to the others.
Billy James Brightraven http://cdn.crushable.com/files/2012/07/groovin.gif
You're pretty much done with most of the sentence, it's the last part that's not jiving :p
i.e. “íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
You're pretty much done with most of the sentence, it's the last part that's not jiving :p
i.e. “íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström But a treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be by common opinion uncovered, that of that which stands out, should be taken and shared between them!
Billy James Brightraven that of that which stands out? nyah.
"íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit", eestit is != stat
I quote yourself “píd - quid(quid)”
But besides that, Victor is winning. Hard.
"íním píd eíseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit", eestit is != stat
I quote yourself “píd - quid(quid)”
But besides that, Victor is winning. Hard.
Victor Wåhlstrand Skärström Oh, dear!
But a treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be by common opinion uncovered, whatever stands out, should be taken and shared between them!
But a treasure in this land that they were to uncover, it ought to be by common opinion uncovered, whatever stands out, should be taken and shared between them!
Billy James Brightraven I will accept this!
Oscan (from Cippus Abellanus):
“Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd e íseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
Latin (from some old dusty book I found in public domain)
“At thesaurum qui in eo territorio est, cum aperirent, communi sententia aperirent, et quidquid in eo thesauro quandoque exstat, portionum alteram alteri caperent.”
"Yet for treasure which in this territory is, when they are to open it, they are to open it in agreement, and whatever at this time in this treasure exist, a piece for each they are to take."
Sure, some unorthodox usage of "uncover" but it is attested as meaning "to show openly" (i.e. sort-of to open) before everyone goes crazy over my Oscan.
nb: I'm not sure the Latin is up to par, I have a nagging feel that herríns might be related to herest, her- (to want, desire) which would render the whole as "a share one to the other that they would desire" which might mean something like "A piece each of that which they desire (thus shall they take)" in less crazy language. But the general gist seems to be that they ought to take and share so I think Victor's translation hit it with the needle.
Victator — Victor!
Oscan (from Cippus Abellanus):
“Avt thesavrúm púd eseí tereí íst, pún patensíns, múíníkad tanginúd patensíns, íním píd e íseí thesavreí púkkapíd eestit aíttíúm alttram alttrús herríns.”
Latin (from some old dusty book I found in public domain)
“At thesaurum qui in eo territorio est, cum aperirent, communi sententia aperirent, et quidquid in eo thesauro quandoque exstat, portionum alteram alteri caperent.”
"Yet for treasure which in this territory is, when they are to open it, they are to open it in agreement, and whatever at this time in this treasure exist, a piece for each they are to take."
Sure, some unorthodox usage of "uncover" but it is attested as meaning "to show openly" (i.e. sort-of to open) before everyone goes crazy over my Oscan.
nb: I'm not sure the Latin is up to par, I have a nagging feel that herríns might be related to herest, her- (to want, desire) which would render the whole as "a share one to the other that they would desire" which might mean something like "A piece each of that which they desire (thus shall they take)" in less crazy language. But the general gist seems to be that they ought to take and share so I think Victor's translation hit it with the needle.
Victator — Victor!
Billy James Brightraven I noticed, you even forgot some words you had successfully translated earlier but yeah, bring us something to translate (aber bitte, bitte, no more ortöj)
but yeah, bring us something to translate (aber bitte, bitte, no more ortöj)Billy James Brightraven Germanic sounds fun been some time since we had something that wasn't North Germanic shtuff :p
been some time since we had something that wasn't North Germanic shtuff :pArief Wibowo Wooo hooo... All rounds (up til the Oscan) are tagged now (5 hours of work!), producing this stats: http://sprogspelet.arwi.im/history/sprakspelers/
Edit: it's now sortable!
And here are our top 11 players:
Edit: it's now sortable!
And here are our top 11 players:
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